Help - the truthers almost have me!

[Lies]

So I started watching Loose Change last night and, as expected, it reeked of classic conspiracy theory, right down to the adenoidal voice of the presenter. I've heard Cain slag off the "truther" movement in general and (iirc) this movie in particular. One problem - and from a layman's pov (I've never looked into any of this) a lot of fucking convincing arguments.

If the documents shown were made up? If the experts opinions were not from real experts? If it wasn't for the fact that most of the people refuting these claims are bloody politicians then maybe I would have a harder time believing this shit but, as it stands, I'm seeing no real holes in their story.

Please to poke some before I become a believer. 

You know, theres also this kid that doesn't need food or water and just sits around all day.

Yeah but I have things like Classic Newtonian Physics to refute that one with. Apparently the two towers actually did fall down

I'm saying, if you're dumb enough to actually believe loose change, I think you'd be dumb enough to not believe that someone can't hibernate.

[East Coast Hustle]

To be fair, When I first heard the attacks being reported they listed the fourth flight (flight 92) as having been shot down.
(which makes sense to me, if they knew the plane was jacked it seems like a plausable solution).
Only later did they change it to the flight was braught down by someone on board.
This always seemed to me to be that the gov was just trying to save face rather then admit they had to shoot down the plane.

that would be a reasonable hypothesis, but nearly everyone on flight 92 made a cell phone call to loved ones informing them of the situation and letting them know that they were going to take the plane and/or force it down rather than let it be used as a weapon. So the government would have to have somehow convinced ALL of them to lie to the rest of the world and say that "yeah, we did get a call from so and so..."

also, IIRC, Todd Beamer's family actually recorded his call to them, including his goodbye and the now-famous "let's roll" quote.

[P3nT4gR4m]

I'm saying, if you're dumb enough to actually believe loose change, I think you'd be dumb enough to not believe that someone can't hibernate.

Dude, srsly, let it lie.

1) I don't believe in loose change, op was tongue in cheek - hence the "before I become a believer" part.

2) I'd believe bush did it himself, with his bare hands, before I'd believe that ridiculous shit which you have a thread devoted to already. Pls to keep your hosries the fuck out of my thread.

kthnx

[hooplala]

To be fair, When I first heard the attacks being reported they listed the fourth flight (flight 92) as having been shot down.
(which makes sense to me, if they knew the plane was jacked it seems like a plausable solution).
Only later did they change it to the flight was braught down by someone on board.
This always seemed to me to be that the gov was just trying to save face rather then admit they had to shoot down the plane.

that would be a reasonable hypothesis, but nearly everyone on flight 92 made a cell phone call to loved ones informing them of the situation and letting them know that they were going to take the plane and/or force it down rather than let it be used as a weapon. So the government would have to have somehow convinced ALL of them to lie to the rest of the world and say that "yeah, we did get a call from so and so..."

also, IIRC, Todd Beamer's family actually recorded his call to them, including his goodbye and the now-famous "let's roll" quote.

Isn't it possible both scenarios happened?  The passengers attempted to take down the plane themselves, but at -or around- the same time the government shot it out of the sky?

[East Coast Hustle]

I suppose it is. I'm not sure what difference it would make.

also, the plane crashed in a cornfield. there were plenty of civilian witnesses on the scene within minutes and as far as I know, the wreckage of the plane looked exactly like it would if the plane had crashed, as opposed to being blown apart in mid-air.

also also, I can't imagine why anyone would have blamed the feds for shooting that plane down so I see no reason for that particular cover-up.

[Thurnez Isa]

I'm saying, if you're dumb enough to actually believe loose change, I think you'd be dumb enough to not believe that someone can't hibernate.

Dude, srsly, let it lie.

1) I don't believe in loose change, op was tongue in cheek - hence the "before I become a believer" part.

2) I'd believe bush did it himself, with his bare hands, before I'd believe that ridiculous shit which you have a thread devoted to already. Pls to keep your hosries the fuck out of my thread.

kthnx

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

The conspiracy is actually that the government is behind the Truthers.

Here's the way 9/11 went down:

1) Months in advance, AQ starts planning.
2) At some point US Intel gets wind of the plot, but not the specifics.
3) For whatever reason, (hubris?) neither Clinton or Bush recoginize the seriousness of the situation.
4) The Shit Hits The Towers
5) Unable to admit that it screwed the Pooch, the Bush administration drops a few psyops people off at an Internet Cafe where they start the Truther movement to distract the conspiracy theorists and make any claims about the nature of events appear as crazy conspiracy theories.

[East Coast Hustle]

now THAT is a conspiracy theory I can get behind.

[fomenter]

The conspiracy is actually that the government is behind the Truthers.

Here's the way 9/11 went down:

1) Months in advance, AQ starts planning.
2) At some point US Intel gets wind of the plot, but not the specifics.
3) For whatever reason, (hubris?) neither Clinton or Bush recoginize the seriousness of the situation.
4) The Shit Hits The Towers
5) Unable to admit that it screwed the Pooch, the Bush administration drops a few psyops people off at an Internet Cafe where they start the Truther movement to distract the conspiracy theorists and make any claims about the nature of events appear as crazy conspiracy theories.

this is the proper use of disinformation, make any conspiracy look so stupid all conspiracy's including what really went down look dumb and easy to dismiss

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

The conspiracy is actually that the government is behind the Truthers.

Here's the way 9/11 went down:

1) Months in advance, AQ starts planning.
2) At some point US Intel gets wind of the plot, but not the specifics.
3) For whatever reason, (hubris?) neither Clinton or Bush recoginize the seriousness of the situation.
4) The Shit Hits The Towers
5) Unable to admit that it screwed the Pooch, the Bush administration drops a few psyops people off at an Internet Cafe where they start the Truther movement to distract the conspiracy theorists and make any claims about the nature of events appear as crazy conspiracy theories.

this is the proper use of disinformation, make any conspiracy look so stupid all conspiracy's including what really went down look dumb and easy to dismiss

Which is why "Everything Is Under Control" should be required reading... along with 'The Prince'.

[Vene]

[Lies]

I'm saying, if you're dumb enough to actually believe loose change, I think you'd be dumb enough to not believe that someone can't hibernate.

Dude, srsly, let it lie.

1) I don't believe in loose change, op was tongue in cheek - hence the "before I become a believer" part.

2) I'd believe bush did it himself, with his bare hands, before I'd believe that ridiculous shit which you have a thread devoted to already. Pls to keep your hosries the fuck out of my thread.

kthnx

Sorry, I couldn't help but  , seriously, I was worried though you might actually be considering joiner the truthers, I needed a verbal equivalent for a slap for you.

[Faust]

I suppose it is. I'm not sure what difference it would make.

also, the plane crashed in a cornfield. there were plenty of civilian witnesses on the scene within minutes and as far as I know, the wreckage of the plane looked exactly like it would if the plane had crashed, as opposed to being blown apart in mid-air.

also also, I can't imagine why anyone would have blamed the feds for shooting that plane down so I see no reason for that particular cover-up.

I'm not saying I believe it, I just remember it being reported as shot down in the confusion

[Faust]

So I started watching Loose Change last night and, as expected, it reeked of classic conspiracy theory, right down to the adenoidal voice of the presenter. I've heard Cain slag off the "truther" movement in general and (iirc) this movie in particular. One problem - and from a layman's pov (I've never looked into any of this) a lot of fucking convincing arguments.

If the documents shown were made up? If the experts opinions were not from real experts? If it wasn't for the fact that most of the people refuting these claims are bloody politicians then maybe I would have a harder time believing this shit but, as it stands, I'm seeing no real holes in their story.

Please to poke some before I become a believer. 

You know, theres also this kid that doesn't need food or water and just sits around all day.

Yeah but I have things like Classic Newtonian Physics to refute that one with. Apparently the two towers actually did fall down

I'm saying, if you're dumb enough to actually believe loose change, I think you'd be dumb enough to not believe that someone can't hibernate.

Please don't tell me you think hibernation could allow that kid to go without water for a year. Hibernation is a not a lossless energy system.

[Lies]

So I started watching Loose Change last night and, as expected, it reeked of classic conspiracy theory, right down to the adenoidal voice of the presenter. I've heard Cain slag off the "truther" movement in general and (iirc) this movie in particular. One problem - and from a layman's pov (I've never looked into any of this) a lot of fucking convincing arguments.

If the documents shown were made up? If the experts opinions were not from real experts? If it wasn't for the fact that most of the people refuting these claims are bloody politicians then maybe I would have a harder time believing this shit but, as it stands, I'm seeing no real holes in their story.

Please to poke some before I become a believer. 

You know, theres also this kid that doesn't need food or water and just sits around all day.

Yeah but I have things like Classic Newtonian Physics to refute that one with. Apparently the two towers actually did fall down

I'm saying, if you're dumb enough to actually believe loose change, I think you'd be dumb enough to not believe that someone can't hibernate.

Please don't tell me you think hibernation could allow that kid to go without water for a year. Hibernation is a not a lossless energy system.

Once again, let me just make my stance on the whole issue clear: I don't "believe" anything atm in regards to the "buddha boy", I find the story fascinating and want to know what exactly is going on.

Anyway, Pent doesn't want me bring this shit up in his precious thread so I'll leave it at that.