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Love, Relationships, and Honesty

Started by Pope Lecherous, March 01, 2009, 09:33:41 PM

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Aufenthatt

#15
March 02, 2009, 10:24:52 PM
How do you separate the actions that will have no wider social implication from the ones that will?

The Good Reverend Roger

#16
March 03, 2009, 12:06:43 AM
Quote from: Aufenthatt on March 02, 2009, 10:24:52 PM
How do you separate the actions that will have no wider social implication from the ones that will?


That's in the fine print.  Read it for yourself.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

#17
March 03, 2009, 12:14:44 AM
Is it so hard to simply use your best judgment regarding whether your actions are selfish or hurtful, and make decisions that are respectful of the human relationships you have with each individual person? For example, if you are in a relationship with someone, and it is reasonable for them to assume the relationship is monogamous, it is a deceitful and self-serving lie of omission to sleep with other people without telling them. Misleading is as potent a form of dishonesty as an outright lie.

It's really just called "being a grownup". Be honest and mindful of those you care about, and who care about you. Don't mislead them. Don't lie for selfish reasons. Be verbally open and clear about the nature of your relationship. To do otherwise is cowardly and selfish.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."

The Good Reverend Roger

#18
March 03, 2009, 12:19:19 AM
Quote from: Nigel on March 03, 2009, 12:14:44 AM
Is it so hard to simply use your best judgment regarding whether your actions are selfish or hurtful, and make decisions that are respectful of the human relationships you have with each individual person? For example, if you are in a relationship with someone, and it is reasonable for them to assume the relationship is monogamous, it is a deceitful and self-serving lie of omission to sleep with other people without telling them. Misleading is as potent a form of dishonesty as an outright lie.

It's really just called "being a grownup". Be honest and mindful of those you care about, and who care about you. Don't mislead them. Don't lie for selfish reasons. Be verbally open and clear about the nature of your relationship. To do otherwise is cowardly and selfish.

If you write about it (and/or think about it) in a needlessly vague and disjointed fashion, you can convince yourself that you have a reasonable position, I suppose.

" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

#19
March 03, 2009, 12:36:30 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 03, 2009, 12:19:19 AM
Quote from: Nigel on March 03, 2009, 12:14:44 AM
Is it so hard to simply use your best judgment regarding whether your actions are selfish or hurtful, and make decisions that are respectful of the human relationships you have with each individual person? For example, if you are in a relationship with someone, and it is reasonable for them to assume the relationship is monogamous, it is a deceitful and self-serving lie of omission to sleep with other people without telling them. Misleading is as potent a form of dishonesty as an outright lie.

It's really just called "being a grownup". Be honest and mindful of those you care about, and who care about you. Don't mislead them. Don't lie for selfish reasons. Be verbally open and clear about the nature of your relationship. To do otherwise is cowardly and selfish.

If you write about it (and/or think about it) in a needlessly vague and disjointed fashion, you can convince yourself that you have a reasonable position, I suppose.



I suspect that's actually how a lot of people manage to believe they're decent people even while they do shitty things to the people close to them.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."

Pope Lecherous

#20
March 03, 2009, 12:47:20 AM
Quote from: Nigel on March 03, 2009, 12:36:30 AM
I suspect that's actually how a lot of people manage to believe they're decent people even while they do shitty things to the people close to them.

It wasn't done.  The reasons you stated are the very same reasons why it did not happen.  I expected Roger to use this as an opportunity to learn me some lessons from up high, no need to jump on the bandwagon.
--- War to the knife, knife to the hilt.

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

#21
March 03, 2009, 01:04:35 AM
Quote from: Pope Lecherous on March 03, 2009, 12:47:20 AM
Quote from: Nigel on March 03, 2009, 12:36:30 AM
I suspect that's actually how a lot of people manage to believe they're decent people even while they do shitty things to the people close to them.

It wasn't done.  The reasons you stated are the very same reasons why it did not happen.  I expected Roger to use this as an opportunity to learn me some lessons from up high, no need to jump on the bandwagon.

I didn't say "Pope Lecherous", I said "a lot of people". Topic drift, This thread is no  longer about you. KTHX.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."

Pope Lecherous

#22
March 03, 2009, 01:07:09 AM
Quote from: Nigel on March 03, 2009, 01:04:35 AM
I didn't say "Pope Lecherous", I said "a lot of people". Topic drift, This thread is no  longer about you. KTHX.

Oh that was just the ego, disregard my last.  This is the Relationship thread
--- War to the knife, knife to the hilt.

The Good Reverend Roger

#23
March 03, 2009, 01:08:25 AM
Quote from: Pope Lecherous on March 03, 2009, 01:07:09 AM
Quote from: Nigel on March 03, 2009, 01:04:35 AM
I didn't say "Pope Lecherous", I said "a lot of people". Topic drift, This thread is no  longer about you. KTHX.

Oh that was just the ego, disregard my last.  This is the Relationship thread

We nationalized your thread.  Deal.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Pope Lecherous

#24
March 03, 2009, 01:20:59 AM
Quote from: Aufenthatt on March 02, 2009, 10:24:52 PM
How do you separate the actions that will have no wider social implication from the ones that will?


Number of people directly effected by the choice.  Personal and business, you could say.
--- War to the knife, knife to the hilt.

Aufenthatt

#25
March 03, 2009, 08:29:24 PM Last Edit: March 03, 2009, 08:39:25 PM by Aufenthatt
Quote from: Pope Lecherous on March 03, 2009, 01:20:59 AM
Quote from: Aufenthatt on March 02, 2009, 10:24:52 PM
How do you separate the actions that will have no wider social implication from the ones that will?


Number of people directly effected by the choice.  Personal and business, you could say.

Social ripples can have the same effect as a action that directly effects the masses.
Just delayed.
Its like free market capitalism, your system seems to work to start with, but eventually you hit massive problems.

LMNO

#26
March 03, 2009, 08:34:38 PM

Pope Lecherous

#27
March 03, 2009, 08:39:53 PM
Quote from: Aufenthatt on March 03, 2009, 08:29:24 PM
Social ripples can have the same effect as a action that directly effects the masses.
Just delayed.
Its like free market capitalism, your system seems to work to start with, but eventually you hit massive problems.

qft, but you can only care so much.  The best we can hope for is that there is an honorable motive/intention for desired goal, and desired goal is best possible solution based on the available data and forseeable consequences.  Eris has ensured Unknown unknowns will always exist: beautiful sometimes, sometimes unthinkably horrific.  all you can strive for is the best no matter how pointless it seems... despite the boat sinking.

the boat being humanity in general, not the economy and this system we are a part of. 
--- War to the knife, knife to the hilt.

Aufenthatt

#28
March 03, 2009, 08:51:08 PM
Quote from: LMNO once again on March 03, 2009, 08:34:38 PM


Yes, the creation of giant butterflies was one of the delayed disasters I'm talking about.
I can't say enough how sorry I am about that.


Quote from: Pope Lecherous on March 03, 2009, 08:39:53 PM
Quote from: Aufenthatt on March 03, 2009, 08:29:24 PM
Social ripples can have the same effect as a action that directly effects the masses.
Just delayed.
Its like free market capitalism, your system seems to work to start with, but eventually you hit massive problems.

qft, but you can only care so much.  The best we can hope for is that there is an honorable motive/intention for desired goal, and desired goal is best possible solution based on the available data and forseeable consequences.  Eris has ensured Unknown unknowns will always exist: beautiful sometimes, sometimes unthinkably horrific.  all you can strive for is the best no matter how pointless it seems... despite the boat sinking.

the boat being humanity in general, not the economy and this system we are a part of. 

Oh I don't care, I just want a morality in place that means people help me when i'm in the shit.
Uber fortified family unit = Tribal war

I'm not entirely sure how you define a honorable motive, other than that the person was following there mentality. Whilst I agree, I can't see how a large group of people can maintian much using that way of thinking. On the same thread, what is best?
Art of playing games I guess.

Humanity is our system and economy, to all intents and purpouses, as long as we are in it.

Pope Lecherous

#29
March 03, 2009, 09:21:37 PM
Quote from: Aufenthatt on March 03, 2009, 08:51:08 PM
Oh I don't care, I just want a morality in place that means people help me when i'm in the shit.
Uber fortified family unit = Tribal war

I'm not much of a conspiracy theorist, but that's where deceit comes in on the govt's part.  They have this formula that crisis bonds or unifies people.  This crisis was meant to inspire a great leap, but (hypothetically) the architects of this scenario are not the same people that are in charge of repairing it.  Greed was bound to prevail with collapse on the horizon, this was known, so it was counted on.  And here we are teetering or otherwise close to the edge.  Some breakthroughs need to occur in techonology and policy sometime before the bandages fail and the dam bursts.

Brotherhood amongst men can only occur after Maslow's bottom level of the hierarchy is secured.  Maslow definitely ain't gospel, but it holds in this example, because you and i know damn well people are in preservation mode, hence as you stated movements towards that goal in these time will lead to said Tribal battle.

Quote from: Aufenthatt on March 03, 2009, 08:51:08 PM
I'm not entirely sure how you define a honorable motive, other than that the person was following there mentality. Whilst I agree, I can't see how a large group of people can maintian much using that way of thinking. On the same thread, what is best?
Art of playing games I guess.

The game is the only way, it seems, to motivate the right people.  Legislating cohesion, not possible, so games to get it

Quote from: Aufenthatt on March 03, 2009, 08:51:08 PM
Humanity is our system and economy, to all intents and purpouses, as long as we are in it.

I'd call that (un)civilization. Humanity as i was using it was people helping you while youre in the shit.  Maybe better terms are in order.
--- War to the knife, knife to the hilt.
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