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Plus, I Got Religion

Started by Mesozoic Mister Nigel, March 08, 2009, 01:18:16 AM

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potato

#225
March 12, 2009, 08:23:46 PM
sorry Nigel, I didn't really want to go there either. I participated in defending a christian's right to call themselves a christian or say the bible says something other people don't think it says because I don't see it as any different from a villager going to the oracle, or a tribe member going to the shaman. they don't read it for themselves, they take it on faith and who gives a shit?

I have a voodoo doll on my desk and I feel good when I poke it. there's no logic in that but I don't care.
everything I commit to print is protected by the copyright laws of the U.S. and I retain all rights, including rights to create derivative works, except where I have included reprinted content under the fair use provision, in which case the original author retains all rights, unless of course they've place their work in the public domain or under a CC license, in which case there are no restrictions on public domain works and CC works can be used under the specific license under which it has been distributed.

the above notice exists in case I accidentally ever say anything clever enough that someone wants to borrow, steal or otherwise use it in any printed form.

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

#226
March 12, 2009, 08:29:26 PM
Quote from: potato on March 12, 2009, 08:23:46 PM
sorry Nigel, I didn't really want to go there either. I participated in defending a christian's right to call themselves a christian or say the bible says something other people don't think it says because I don't see it as any different from a villager going to the oracle, or a tribe member going to the shaman. they don't read it for themselves, they take it on faith and who gives a shit?

I have a voodoo doll on my desk and I feel good when I poke it. there's no logic in that but I don't care.

Yes.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."

potato

#227
March 12, 2009, 08:33:05 PM
Quote from: LMNO on March 12, 2009, 07:32:25 PM
For example, let's say that someone tells you that it is written in the Old Testament that gays are not allowed to marry.


If you ask them where it says that, they won't know.  Because it's not there.  And while I think that basing your biases and prejudices because a book told you to is silly, basing it on a book that doesn't even say it is downright idiotic.
oh, I get it now. it's not the WORDS, it's the INFERENCES. so people take on faith inferences made by others and that bothers you?
everything I commit to print is protected by the copyright laws of the U.S. and I retain all rights, including rights to create derivative works, except where I have included reprinted content under the fair use provision, in which case the original author retains all rights, unless of course they've place their work in the public domain or under a CC license, in which case there are no restrictions on public domain works and CC works can be used under the specific license under which it has been distributed.

the above notice exists in case I accidentally ever say anything clever enough that someone wants to borrow, steal or otherwise use it in any printed form.

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

#228
March 12, 2009, 08:53:47 PM
Potato, am I related to you? (sudden sneaking suspicion)
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."

potato

#229
March 12, 2009, 09:19:14 PM
Quote from: Nigel on March 12, 2009, 08:53:47 PM
Potato, am I related to you? (sudden sneaking suspicion)
yes.

sorry I thought you realized who I was.... you know, cult and crazy mother. was it the voodoo doll that gave it away?

I wasn't sure it was you until you brought up the indian thing. I should have known from your avatar though, that totally looks just like you.

I actually didn't get here because of blood, it was the damned nethernet.
everything I commit to print is protected by the copyright laws of the U.S. and I retain all rights, including rights to create derivative works, except where I have included reprinted content under the fair use provision, in which case the original author retains all rights, unless of course they've place their work in the public domain or under a CC license, in which case there are no restrictions on public domain works and CC works can be used under the specific license under which it has been distributed.

the above notice exists in case I accidentally ever say anything clever enough that someone wants to borrow, steal or otherwise use it in any printed form.

Thurnez Isa

#230
March 12, 2009, 09:50:07 PM
Quote from: Nigel on March 12, 2009, 07:54:34 PM
It's kind of a bummer that any given discussion about religion or faith eventually degenerates to talking about Christians and Christianity. I think too many people see the word "religion" and in some conditioned way subconsciously translate it to "Christian", so that it becomes almost impossible to discuss religion without it turning into a conversation about how stupid Christians are.

:lulz:

you gotta troll more atheist sites
Through me the way to the city of woe, Through me the way to everlasting pain, Through me the way among the lost.
Justice moved my maker on high.
Divine power made me, Wisdom supreme, and Primal love.
Before me nothing was but things eternal, and eternal I endure.
Abandon all hope, you who enter here.
Dante

Bebek Sincap Ratatosk

#231
March 12, 2009, 10:10:33 PM
Ok, I'm gonna try to answer LMNO's question about which translation etc. Then, if my ride isn't here, I'll even try to tie it back to a more broad discussion of religion, cause I don't want Nigel to send her ancestors to poke me with sticks.

Jehovah's Witnesses KNOW which translation is correct. They KNOW this because "the faithful and discrete slave class" (FDS) run the organization and in the 1950's, "The Governing Body" determined that there was not currently an accurate translation. Thus the New World Translation was born. The reason that JW's KNOW the translation is accurate, is because The Governing Body are representatives of The FDS and they were in charge of the Translation. The FDS got the translation correct because they are God's representatives on Earth. Further, the interpretation of the Bible accepted by JW's is the interpretation as defined by the Watchtower and other publications from the Watchtower, Bible and Tract Society. The interpretations there are correct because the Writing Committee is overseen by members of the FDS and they are God's channel to His people.

Now, most JW's will be able to accurately tell you what is in the Bible, often word for word, chapter and verse. They will expound on that scripture and know how to tie that scripture to a dozen other scriptures to create a complete argument supported in most bibles... though most accurately in the NWT (though JW's have been taught that it is always best to use the "householders" Bible to prove scripture until they're comfortable with NWT).

JW's study, they meditate, they dig deeply into scripture and spend countless hours learning the right answers to whatever objections they might be greeted with at the door.

YET, IT STILL BOILS DOWN TO FAITH. They have to have faith that the FDS is what these people claim, made up of the people who claim it and doing what they claim it does. If one cannot accept that leap, then there is no basis for belief.

If we replace FDS with The Nicene Council and JW with 'Christian', you have the same story.

At some point, no matter how well you know the Bible, you just have to have blind faith that your foundation is solid.

*ride is here* more later*
- I don't see race. I just see cars going around in a circle.

"Back in my day, crazy meant something. Now everyone is crazy" - Charlie Manson

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

#232
March 12, 2009, 10:44:36 PM
Quote from: potato on March 12, 2009, 09:19:14 PM
Quote from: Nigel on March 12, 2009, 08:53:47 PM
Potato, am I related to you? (sudden sneaking suspicion)
yes.

sorry I thought you realized who I was.... you know, cult and crazy mother. was it the voodoo doll that gave it away?

I wasn't sure it was you until you brought up the indian thing. I should have known from your avatar though, that totally looks just like you.

I actually didn't get here because of blood, it was the damned nethernet.

It WOULD be the Nethernet! Hahahaha!

The crazy mom thing and the cult thing wasn't that much of a giveaway... it's a big Internet. :) It was when you made a snarky comment in exactly the same style I would have made a snarky comment in that the coincidences became too much to bear.

:lulz:
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."

potato

#233
March 12, 2009, 10:53:11 PM
Quote from: Nigel on March 12, 2009, 10:44:36 PM
It was when you made a snarky comment in exactly the same style I would have made a snarky comment in that the coincidences became too much to bear.

:lulz:
that is too funny! I thought I was being so obvious, but in the end it was the snark that gave me away.
everything I commit to print is protected by the copyright laws of the U.S. and I retain all rights, including rights to create derivative works, except where I have included reprinted content under the fair use provision, in which case the original author retains all rights, unless of course they've place their work in the public domain or under a CC license, in which case there are no restrictions on public domain works and CC works can be used under the specific license under which it has been distributed.

the above notice exists in case I accidentally ever say anything clever enough that someone wants to borrow, steal or otherwise use it in any printed form.

potato

#234
March 12, 2009, 10:58:54 PM
and by "obvious" I don't mean rushing into the fray with sword drawn because we happened to have popped from the womb of the same crazy woman and I think I have an obligation to defend your position even if you're wrong. I only agree with you when I actually agree with you.  :lulz:
everything I commit to print is protected by the copyright laws of the U.S. and I retain all rights, including rights to create derivative works, except where I have included reprinted content under the fair use provision, in which case the original author retains all rights, unless of course they've place their work in the public domain or under a CC license, in which case there are no restrictions on public domain works and CC works can be used under the specific license under which it has been distributed.

the above notice exists in case I accidentally ever say anything clever enough that someone wants to borrow, steal or otherwise use it in any printed form.

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

#235
March 12, 2009, 11:08:56 PM
Oh, I'm altogether aware of that... :evil:

HEY GUYS, MEET MY SISTER!
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."

Bebek Sincap Ratatosk

#236
March 12, 2009, 11:19:19 PM
Quote from: Nigel on March 12, 2009, 11:08:56 PM
Oh, I'm altogether aware of that... :evil:

HEY GUYS, MEET MY SISTER!

:lulz:

The board may explode...
- I don't see race. I just see cars going around in a circle.

"Back in my day, crazy meant something. Now everyone is crazy" - Charlie Manson

Cainad (dec.)

#237
March 12, 2009, 11:34:32 PM
We're all gonna die! :ohnotache:

Bebek Sincap Ratatosk

#238
March 12, 2009, 11:37:55 PM
*continued*

So, anyway... my point is this. After all that crazy work, JW's are still just believing what their told. Just as much as the person who says "My Preacher Says ..." and doesn't know too much of the bible at all.

The latter is just more overtly annoying.  :lulz:

Religious people of whatever stripe or belief system have either faith or experiences (or both) as the base. Faith in their preacher, faith in some ancient council, faith in the person who taught you traditions or faith in a bunch of old  guys in New York... it's still faith in some guy. I used to feel far superior to the general infophobic Christians... people like my grandma who believed that Jesus' birthday date was in the Bible, and could tell you all sorts of stuff that was in the bible because her preacher said so. I thought I knew my shit because I had words on pages and good memorization.

I was going somewhere with this that was gonna wrap back around and I've completely forgotten where that was... so I think I'll just shut up now.
- I don't see race. I just see cars going around in a circle.

"Back in my day, crazy meant something. Now everyone is crazy" - Charlie Manson

The Good Reverend Roger

#239
March 12, 2009, 11:38:30 PM
Quote from: Nigel on March 12, 2009, 11:08:56 PM
Oh, I'm altogether aware of that... :evil:

HEY GUYS, MEET MY SISTER!

HOLA, POTATO!
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.
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