Financial fuckery thread

[Triple Zero]

[Cain]

Very strange happenings on the stock market today.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14423297

Instability on the stock markets has continued, despite better-than-expected US jobs figures.

There have been sharp falls in the past 24 hours amid a crisis of confidence due to the eurozone debt crisis and concerns about weak economic recovery in the US and Europe.

A fall in the US jobless rate caused the US markets to open higher and gave temporary relief to European indexes.

But London's FTSE and Frankfurt's Dax were soon down about 2% again.

European markets had been down as much as 4% in the morning, before recovering, and then lurching back down again by mid-afternoon.

Earlier, the EU's Economic and Monetary Affairs Commissioner, Olli Rehn, said he thought the movements were "incomprehensible" and "not justified by the economic fundamentals", particularly in Italy and Spain, the latest focus of investors' concerns.

[Disco Pickle]

Yeah, I'm watching the hell out of this.  Hindsight being what it is it would have been best to move everything to cash yesterday but it's still not too late to cut my losses and bolt to treasuries for the rest of the year.

Probably make a decision after 2 when lunch has settled.  I'm still young and dumb enough to be fairly risky with my investments but I really don't want to take another beating like '08 if I can help it.

[Cain]

Robert Peston, BBC's Finance Editor and Fifth Horseman of the Apocalypse, made a direct parallel between todays stock market instability and that of August 2007, when the credit crunch started.

[Cain]

£38 billion wiped off the top 100 UK companies today, alone.  £148 billion in the last week.

[Faust]

I've got a share account set up now, I've been looking at pretrochemicals and gold but I'm going to hold on because the next week could drive everything down a lot further.

I'm a newb to this so if anyone has any suggestions I'm listening.

[Disco Pickle]

I've got a share account set up now, I've been looking at pretrochemicals and gold but I'm going to hold on because the next week could drive everything down a lot further.

I'm a newb to this so if anyone has any suggestions I'm listening.

buy low, sell high 

seriously though, I listen to a few different guys and what they're doing and then make decisions based on how much I'm willing to be risky that day.  I don't move things around often, sometimes only once a year to reinvest when I'm getting top heavy in one area.

Naturally, the people I listen to are Austrian school, libertarian types.  If your personal politics make you shy away from taking financial ques from those types well then..  you probably shouldn't be in the market.  Hate em or love em, they're watching this shit close and have a stake in making the right moves, or at least ones that wont have them jumping from skyscrapers by close of business day.

I'll dig up some links over lunch break.

[Doktor Howl]

Earlier, the EU's Economic and Monetary Affairs Commissioner, Olli Rehn, said he thought the movements were "incomprehensible" and "not justified by the economic fundamentals", particularly in Italy and Spain, the latest focus of investors' concerns.

This is an interesting way of saying the pilot's dead and nobody else knows how to land the plane.

ETA:  Or the pilot has been tied up and put in the bathroom by some dodgy-looking bankers.

[Cain]

Earlier, the EU's Economic and Monetary Affairs Commissioner, Olli Rehn, said he thought the movements were "incomprehensible" and "not justified by the economic fundamentals", particularly in Italy and Spain, the latest focus of investors' concerns.

This is an interesting way of saying the pilot's dead and nobody else knows how to land the plane.

ETA:  Or the pilot has been tied up and put in the bathroom by some dodgy-looking bankers.

I suspect the latter.  Channel 5 news over here just had a stockbroker on, asking for more "quantative easing".

They want some cheap money to re-inflate the bubble.  Which is the same response we've had to every economic crisis since the 80s, and so, obviously, will work fantastic.

[Doktor Howl]

Earlier, the EU's Economic and Monetary Affairs Commissioner, Olli Rehn, said he thought the movements were "incomprehensible" and "not justified by the economic fundamentals", particularly in Italy and Spain, the latest focus of investors' concerns.

This is an interesting way of saying the pilot's dead and nobody else knows how to land the plane.

ETA:  Or the pilot has been tied up and put in the bathroom by some dodgy-looking bankers.

I suspect the latter.  Channel 5 news over here just had a stockbroker on, asking for more "quantative easing".

They want some cheap money to re-inflate the bubble.  Which is the same response we've had to every economic crisis since the 80s, and so, obviously, will work fantastic.

Two years ago, I mentioned the need to eat these people.

Nobody listened.   

[Disco Pickle]

http://www.schiffradio.com/

Peter Schiff is one I've listened to for a few years.  

Jim Rogers and his Rogers International Commodity Index ( RICI )
http://jimrogers-investments.blogspot.com/

When Jim Rogers is suggesting something, I tend to take his advice.  I listen to him probably more than any other investor out there.

I have quite a bit invested across several Blackrock funds and find they have done a decent job managing.  Any losses I took over the last two years in a poorer performing area was easily offset by gains in others.  They're currently taking the same beating everyone else is at the moment but I've made a lot of money with them over the last few years.

http://www2.blackrock.com/global/home/InvestorRelations/index.htm

http://libertarianinvestments.blogspot.com/ is hit and miss for usefulness.

Of course you should read a lot from here: http://www.forbes.com/

I'm a bit leery right now of recommending gold.  It's at historic highs and looks a lot like a bubble.  Silver is great as long as you're willing to see a dump like it took yesterday every now and again, or be prepared to snatch it up when it does.  Iptuous could probably provide some good advice on Silver and Gold and I was hoping he'd check in today and give his thoughts.  Gold, to me, is the sort of thing you buy when you can afford it, and then just hold it.  Preferably the real stuff that you can get your hands on, but there's some decent funds out there as well.

I use this place pretty heavily for news on metals:  http://www.monex.com/

For currencies I go here: http://www.smartmoney.com

and they had a great article yesterday: http://www.smartmoney.com/invest/currencies/new-tool-for-currency-traders-mimicry-1312324538631/?link=sm_pfspend_rss

on a new tool for piggy backing on major currency skimmers' moves.  Apparently, if their numbers are right:

According to a new report by the Aite Group, a financial services consulting firm, as many as 50% of traders using websites and trading platforms that allow them to copy other investors' trades are making a profit. That's far more than the one-third of retail traders overall who make money in any given quarter, according to data from major forex dealers.

which is pretty damn astounding.

more later.

[Faust]

http://www.schiffradio.com/

Peter Schiff is one I've listened to for a few years.  

Jim Rogers and his Rogers International Commodity Index ( RICI )
http://jimrogers-investments.blogspot.com/

When Jim Rogers is suggesting something, I tend to take his advice.  I listen to him probably more than any other investor out there.

I have quite a bit invested across several Blackrock funds and find they have done a decent job managing.  Any losses I took over the last two years in a poorer performing area was easily offset by gains in others.  They're currently taking the same beating everyone else is at the moment but I've made a lot of money with them over the last few years.

http://www2.blackrock.com/global/home/InvestorRelations/index.htm

http://libertarianinvestments.blogspot.com/ is hit and miss for usefulness.

Of course you should read a lot from here: http://www.forbes.com/

I'm a bit leery right now of recommending gold.  It's at historic highs and looks a lot like a bubble.  Silver is great as long as you're willing to see a dump like it took yesterday every now and again, or be prepared to snatch it up when it does.  Iptuous could probably provide some good advice on Silver and Gold and I was hoping he'd check in today and give his thoughts.  Gold, to me, is the sort of thing you buy when you can afford it, and then just hold it.  Preferably the real stuff that you can get your hands on, but there's some decent funds out there as well.

I use this place pretty heavily for news on metals:  http://www.monex.com/

For currencies I go here: http://www.smartmoney.com

and they had a great article yesterday: http://www.smartmoney.com/invest/currencies/new-tool-for-currency-traders-mimicry-1312324538631/?link=sm_pfspend_rss

on a new tool for piggy backing on major currency skimmers' moves.  Apparently, if their numbers are right:

According to a new report by the Aite Group, a financial services consulting firm, as many as 50% of traders using websites and trading platforms that allow them to copy other investors' trades are making a profit. That's far more than the one-third of retail traders overall who make money in any given quarter, according to data from major forex dealers.

which is pretty damn astounding.

more later.

Awesome, I'll start having a snoop around these.

[BabylonHoruv]

Kieth Olbermann is pissed.

I don't know if his suggestion is a good one, I think protests may be pointless now, but I agree with his sentiment.

http://current.com/shows/countdown/videos/special-comment-the-four-great-hypocrisies-of-the-debt-deal

[Disco Pickle]

I can't stand the guy, personally, but it does always amuse me when lefty pundits talk about "Republicans and their corporate masters"

I guess you only have U.S. treasury bonds in your portfolio, hu Olberman?

Democrats must not buy corporate stock or hold 401k's with investments in those same companies they bitch about so much.

[Cain]

Earlier, the EU's Economic and Monetary Affairs Commissioner, Olli Rehn, said he thought the movements were "incomprehensible" and "not justified by the economic fundamentals", particularly in Italy and Spain, the latest focus of investors' concerns.

This is an interesting way of saying the pilot's dead and nobody else knows how to land the plane.

ETA:  Or the pilot has been tied up and put in the bathroom by some dodgy-looking bankers.

I suspect the latter.  Channel 5 news over here just had a stockbroker on, asking for more "quantative easing".

They want some cheap money to re-inflate the bubble.  Which is the same response we've had to every economic crisis since the 80s, and so, obviously, will work fantastic.

Two years ago, I mentioned the need to eat these people.

Nobody listened.   

The Greeks did attack their own finance ministry, and hacktivists do seem to be targeting banks and corporate monopolies a lot more now.

But yeah.  Ian Welsh, who I occasionally read, said it best:

I feel bad for the Anonymous hackers who were arrested today, but it's also a good thing, in that it will radicalize the hacker community even further and force them to adapt and change their tactics.  They are the bleeding edge of real resistance, and they have moved far from their libertarian roots and become left wing in their sympathies (targeting a city for refusing to allow the homeless to be fed is as left wing as you can get.)

Since, of course, the DOJ has shown no interest in pursuing those who did DDOS attacks against Wikileaks, it is yet another confirmation that the law, as it exists now, is used as a bludgeon against people the government doesn't like, while those who the government does like are left alone, and crimes against the government's "enemies" aren't investigated.  Laws which do not have at least the appearance of being evenly applied are not just, are not perceived as just, and become legitimate targets for breaking.

Meanwhile in England, the Cameron government's massive slashes to education hit virtually all at once, making an entire cohort of young people know exactly who just did their level best to destroy their lives.  This is important, to put it bluntly, young males who don't have enough money to settle down with a young female are extraordinarily dangerous to the state.

What is interesting about both of these things, and many others recently, such as the austerity bills and various legal rulings from the Supreme Court which don't even pretend to follow precedent, is how the velvet glove has come off the iron fist of state and corporate repression.  The elites think that there is nothing ordinary people can do. Whatever the elites do, no matter how harsh, the hoi polloi can only submit.  And if they don't, well, so much the worse for them.

And yet the system is cracking up. A large part of why all of this is being done is to create ever bigger corporations and ever richer western billionaires, so they can compete with the oilarchies.  But recently Russia has come to have more billionaires than the US.  It's really hard to state how startling that is.  America's rich have done everything they can to rig the game so they will get richer, they have a bigger base economy to work off of, and they're still losing the Red Queen's race.  No matter how much they repress their own population, they can't keep up with the folks who have the real gold of the modern economy: black gold.

Unfortunately, as stupid, venal and brutal as our enemies are (and if they aren't your enemies you're a fool or getting a pay check, or I hope you are), our leadership is even more stupid, venal and cowardly.  This entire generation of leadership on what passes for the left is beyond contemptible.  If they are not outright sell outs of the interests of those they claim to champion, then they are willing to betray anyone but their members, and if with rare exceptions (in the US, basically, the gay leadership) they are cowards, unwilling to risk themselves in any way, unwilling to actually fight.  They cavill and moan and condemn anyone who actually fights back. Watching fools demanding that the man who threw a pie at Murdoch be condemned for violence was beyond sad, it was a farce.  Violence?  It reminded me of all the hand wringing when an Iraqi threw a shoe at George Bush, a war criminal and mass murderer.  Oh dear.

And so, while the young are being radicalized, the leaders of the left are unable to provide leadership.  They have been selected to be weak and cowardly, to be unwilling to fight, to be compromisers trying to get the best deal possible as long as that deal doesn't upset the status quo in any real way.

This varies by country.  I have more hope, say, for Greece (after they set the finance ministry alight) than I do for the US.  But the first job of the left in most countries is not to fight the right, it is to destroy the leadership of the left.  To drive them out of power and into the wilderness and either to replace them or to create new forms of organization.  And it is to understand that class war is like war, there will be casualties.  People will be beaten, people will be killed, people will go to jail.  That is what will happen.  It can be avoided in only one way, surrender.  Suffer exactly what the oligarchs want you to suffer and you will be allowed to live and die in what passes for peace.  It will be a peace filled with suffering, hunger, deprivation, and violence not primarily from the authorities but from each other, but if that's what you want, it's available.  Always understanding, of course, that anyone who won't fight will have to accept anything the oligarchs do.  Anything.  When you won't fight, you only get even scraps if it is someone else's interest.