Missions, Goals, Objectives

[Cramulus]

Every so often, I feel it's important to examine this forum-thing we're riding, and perhaps break it out of its black iron prison. WE are bars of the forum's prison. This post is an attempt to examine the shape of the cell and maybe start to rearrange it.



I joined this forum a little over two years ago.
At first I thought, "Wow, an actual group of Discordians!"
                     and I was expecting a normal internet forum.

Then I read The Black Iron Prison, and it shook me up proper. Never before has the internet reached into my life like that.

I thought, "Man, these guys aren't just talking about it, they're actually doing it." Gradually, I realized that there's probably no larger group of Discordians, online or offline. (to be fair, whether we qualify as a "group" is up for debate)

I realized that a lot of my grandiose and over-the-top drives could probably be achieved with the help of a network like this. Many ideas had to change in order to work with a decentralized online group. I've found that the hardest thing to do is to interact with somebody digitally and get them to do something in meatspace. (This is well summarized by Shii's description of the difficulties in motivating Anonymous: "Anonymous as a collective can rarely be motivated to do anything useful, especially if it involves standing up from the computer. This phenomenon was first noted on the Something Awful forums where many people eagerly mobilized in anonymous form to attack furry forums, but few would stand up and get off their computers to go volunteer somewhere.") But nevertheless, projects like POSTERGASM and COLBERTGASM proved that we CAN do stuff in the real world, even if we end up spending much more time talking about it online. Some of this stuff can be really big. A group of 20 or 30 people with their own social networks and resources is a very powerful group. Even if those people are only kinda on the same page and have no central leadership.

I think this forum has amazing potential which it has only partially reailzed. When someone in the year 2050 writes about the history of Discordia, there's a good chance they'll have to mention this forum or its satelite projects. I don't say that to inflate anyone's ego or present us as "authorities". This forum blows goats in many ways. But on the other hand, we also kick ass. Again, we're probably the largest group of Discordians so if something cool is going to emerge from the Discordian society in this decade, there's a really good chance it'll come from here. That's if advancement of the Discordian Society is our goal.

Meta-goals

In my magical dream world, where this is the perfect forum for Discordia, we...

• are involved in a constant outpouring of NEW information and ideas (like Intermittens, the BIP, etc). At least once a year we release a more significant work like the BIP.
• are a social resource for the Discordian Society, making it easier to find Discordians in your area for 3D adventures (this is one of the biggest ways we can encourage emergence)
• provide resources (like POSTERGASM or the stuff in the propaganda depository) for people to play with. These things should be easily accessable from the front page
• have a few clearly defined ongoing projects, so if people want to DO something, there's something to participate in (safaris, trolling, pranks, etc)
• have threads with interesting topics and discussions. 90% of the forums on the internet have nearly identical threads. We should strive to maintain the quality of reading around here.
• are living proof that the Discordian Society wasn't something that just existed in occult / lunatic circles in the 1970s

On a more concrete level, I'd like to see us propagate a prank which makes serious news.


Inclusion Critera
On one hand, I feel bad when someone with thin skin arrives here and gets flamed away before they've had time to learn how we roll. On the other hand, this forum isn't for everybody and I wouldn't want to see this place declawed. Everybody here should be able to freely express themselves. Sometimes that includes being a dick. That's freedom for ya. The Admins have made it clear that this isn't an "ALL ABOARD!" clubhouse - we want to hang out with cool people, and that requires some maintenence to keep a good signal-to-noise ratio.

That being said, I see many newbies as potential resources - people who will make our whole project bigger and better through their participation. So when someone gets flamed off the board for having an unpopular point of view (the big three being Anarchy, Libertarianism, and some types of Paganism), I think it ultimately hurts the community as a whole. (I'm reminded tactic we use when trolling a board - flame any newcomers, thereby generating a sort of judgemental, mistrustful attitude towards newbies. This ensures that newcomers either conform to group norms or leave entirely)

There's also the Monkey Politics game, a middle-schoolesque game we play to determine who's in the in-group and who's in the out-group. This bugged me in high school and it bugs me now. The defense of an in-group generates the SNAFU principle. Here at PD we don't act like we're above our shitflinging territorial monkey nature. Which is cool, but it doesn't mean we have to embrace it either.


Difference from the run-of-the-mill forums

I have always liked the uniqueness of PD. When we were running with the Adam Weishaupt Society, we discovered that when you post something on a forum, the responses are nearly always predictable. This is less true of PD than other places I've found.

I like that people who get involved with this forum often feel the need to give back to it. This has resulted in a lot of great posts, writing, images, etc. The best way to give back is to participate in it - but here you have more options than the typical forum. You could help manage a project, or one of our websites (blackironprison.com always needs participants!). You can write on the blog. And there are always projects going on. When you hang out on most forums, there aren't as many activities! (trolling, safaris, brainstorms, etc)


Presentation

Perhaps the best way to prune this community into the bonsai tree we want it to be is to reorganize it.

The pd front page should be a dynamic page which is updated with the current Quotes, Jokes, Projects, Blog Entries, and Images.

blackironprison.com should become an encylopedia of ideas generated by this forum. We should come up with succinct entries about memes we're fond of (like shrapnel, the Machine, and "FUCK YOU MY COUSIN DIED FROM X") This will help newbies get up to speed, and help us communicate our ideas with minimal confusion. We need volunteers to help do this!

              One entry I suggest is a Newbie entry where everybody can give their thoughts on how to best join the commutiny. Like the ATTN N00bs threads, but less than 40 pages long.

Each subforum could have a sticky thread which describes the function / vibe of that subforum. This is already going on, but some of 'em need updating.

I see the Volunteer Thread as a good resource for this, but maybe there's a better way to let people know what we need help with?




Sometimes I come here for social reasons, sometimes project reasons, sometimes educational reasons. I recognize that there's a broad spectrum of reasons people come here. Nobody wants to be told how to use this forum, so I want to be clear: suggesting a motivation does not mean that everybody's gotta be on the same page. Saying we want to do X does not necessarily exclude Y and Z. So let's not waste our breath trying to come up with a vision we all agree with. Just because I want to spread the word of Eris doesn't mean that you have to. Everybody gets to choose their level of commitment, but must also accept that others see things differently. There are certain points we will never agree on. Dwelling on those points is a distraction from talking about what we could be doing.

I'd like to hear your thoughts about how we can make this forum even better than it currently is, even more different from the boring cardboard forums that are typical on the internet. Let's think for ourselves, shmuck, and collaborate on a creative trip which will help the Forums / Community be totally bitchtits.

[AFK]

Putting my community organizing hat on:

One word:  focus.

Cram, you are an idea generating machine.  Seriously, this place has benefitted immensely from your presence here in terms of finding ways to put this Discordia stuff into motion and into creative projects.  Sometimes, though, I wonder if we get too many irons in the fire.  And this isn't directed at any one person, it's a collective thing.  Between the publishing ideas, the video ideas, the radio ideas, the safari ideas, trolling, and the GASMs, that's a lot of stuff to be carried out by people who have IRL lives as well.  Now, that isn't to say that we can't do all of these things, but I feel like maybe energies get spread out a little too thing at times and causes a sort of burn-out or something. 

I mentioned in another thread doing a logic model.  And maybe we don't really literally need to make one but I think if we came up with an organized, concrete game plan of doing x activities to achieve y outcomes, maybe that would help keep energy moving forward.  I think that is the key, the more focused we can keep the energies, the more bang for the buck we'll get. 

So maybe that is the thing we need to figure out.  Come up with a list of goals and outcomes and figure out which strategies will be most effective in acheiving those goals.  So we want to achieve A, B, C, and D.  To do that we will do 1, 2, 3, and 4.  Again, this is coming from my perspective as a community organizer and maybe it doesn't work with an online community, just throwing it out there. 

[Richter]

You put your finger right on it dude.  

Just to start, maybe a quick "WARNING: HERE THERE BE ASSHOLES" / "HOW TO ROLL"  bit that we could sticky as far as advice we WISH people would clue into before they get run off.

[Cramulus]

Sometimes, though, I wonder if we get too many irons in the fire.  And this isn't directed at any one person, it's a collective thing.  Between the publishing ideas, the video ideas, the radio ideas, the safari ideas, trolling, and the GASMs, that's a lot of stuff to be carried out by people who have IRL lives as well.  Now, that isn't to say that we can't do all of these things, but I feel like maybe energies get spread out a little too thing at times and causes a sort of burn-out or something. 

this is true

I've been subscribing to the Black Swan methodology - instead of pouring all your energy into one big project that will sink or swim, pour your energy into a dozen smaller ones. Odds are, one of 'em is going to take off.

But if there's a large number of projects which we start, put energy into, and then drop. That's the nature of the beast, but it makes me hestitant to, say, write a column for an Intermittens issue that only has a 25% chance of being published.

Maybe this is part of the "reorganize the front-page project". We could have a little section that lists our active projects and links to a wiki entry or thread. When a project slows down, we take it off the roster. But who's that "we"? How could we give front-page edit access to a few people without it becoming total anarchy? By making it a blog perhaps?

[AFK]

Yeah, I can see your point.  And I think a "what's active?" section on the front page is a good idea.  The BIP wiki is a little out of the way and people will only find it as we direct them there. 

[Template]

I'll have a meaningful reply later.  Until then, caryatids, since "We are the bars in [...] Black Iron Prison."

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Yet, one must wonder if part of our problem is too much THINKING and TALKING about what we can do, rather than DOING what we can talk and think about. It seems to me that some of the best stuff from writings to GASMS etc, have been ones that simply happened. Intermittens I is a perfect example. It wasn't from a "Let's Write A Magazine" thread, it was and had but to be ordered, disordered and named by Cramulus and Telarus.

Tao fa tsu-jan: "The Tao just happens." (Footnote to this: The entire passage reads: Jen fa ti, ti fa ti'en, ti'en fa Tao, Tao fa tsu-jan. "Man is subject to earth, earth is subject to heaven, heaven is subject to Tao, Tao is subject to spontaneity." ...) 

- Joyce and Tao

[Kai]

I really like this thread.

Not much more than that from me right now. A few things I have issue with, but I'll gather my thoughts first.

[Cramulus]

Yet, one must wonder if part of our problem is too much THINKING and TALKING about what we can do, rather than DOING what we can talk and think about.

I talk about The Art of Memetics way too much, but it really influenced how I think about these things. AoM describes this kind of community as a "mastermind group" - that is, a network which produces some kind of output. In order to produce better output, we need to hook up feedback systems which encourage the kind of output we want. For example, Intermittens, the PD blog, and the BIP wiki are all places where we showcase the community's creativity.

The trick to mastering the output is to plug the feedback systems into a feedback system. We do this by having meta-discussions about the forum's goals, processes, and tendencies. This will allow us to examine what's working, what isn't, and channel our energy towards more desirable ends.

I hear what you're saying - talking about talking about doing stuff seems kind of removed from the FUN. But we need to hold up a mirror in order to learn that maybe we're not getting any dates because we haven't brushed our hair yet this year. 

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Yet, one must wonder if part of our problem is too much THINKING and TALKING about what we can do, rather than DOING what we can talk and think about.

I talk about The Art of Memetics way too much, but it really influenced how I think about these things. AoM describes this kind of community as a "mastermind group" - that is, a network which produces some kind of output. In order to produce better output, we need to hook up feedback systems which encourage the kind of output we want. For example, Intermittens, the PD blog, and the BIP wiki are all places where we showcase the community's creativity.

The trick to mastering the output is to plug the feedback systems into a feedback system. We do this by having meta-discussions about the forum's goals, processes, and tendencies. This will allow us to examine what's working, what isn't, and channel our energy towards more desirable ends.

I hear what you're saying - talking about talking about doing stuff seems kind of removed from the FUN. But we need to hold up a mirror in order to learn that maybe we're not getting any dates because we haven't brushed our hair yet this year. 

Oh I agree with that... my point, rather was that its the 'in the moment' where the output seems to shine. It was a "Let's make the BiP" it was a collection of Zen Moements which culminated into the BiP. It wasn't talking about Intermittens and planning it as a group... it was in the moment and made up of in the moment posts....

Once a girl broke up with me because I planned all of our events. I took her to movies and shows and parks and all sorts of stuff... trying to make the right mood. Yet, it was the random, accidental, spontaneity that she was looking for. Almost all of the Big Successes around here were brief moments of Zen that turned into EggGASM, ColbertGASM, BiP,  Intermittens, etc etc etc

Perhaps its the spontaneous conversations, posts and threads whcih act as a strata and casing from which our psychedelic fruits can bloom. 

It seems like when we make big plans and have lots of discussion... the output is slower, the energy is lower, like it all got blown in the debate/discussion/planning. Maybe I'm wrong though.

[Golden Applesauce]

In terms of organizing projects, I think the key here is to work on projects that can be completed in less time than the PD attention span.  For bigger projects, we'd have to break them into smaller chunks, do one chunk at a time, and then towards the end have somebody go "Hey, wait a second, we have enough for a new book here!" and go and publish the damned thing.

In terms of new members: yes, we need a "Hitchhiker's Guide to PD.com" on the front page.  Another idea, to make the forum more visible - have a "Thread of the Day" where the OP is posted, blog-like, on the front page so visitors can see that we have an active and interesting forum?  The "comments" section, of course, would be a like to the thread proper.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I don't want to be organized or challenged. I really just come here to fuck off.

I feel like every few months, someone gets bored and tries to organize the PD.com spags to do something productive. That's cool, but it seems like more cool stuff actually happens when someone says "I have this fun project I'm working on!" and people get interested and want to play. Some of my favorite stuff, too, is where someone does something/sees something cool/weird IRL, and posts about it. That's where just talking about it can lead to more fun stuff, because other people see it and want to do something like it... one-sentence meme bombs getting stickered everywhere, or Postergasm. I love those! Right now some of my friends are busy plastering signposts in Portland with "This Post Scares Me" stickers... two of them are on their second sheet. That's some fun shit right there, and it came from just talking about stuff.

Peedeedotcom as an organized interest group kind of freaks me out, honestly.

[Kai]

Okay, heres the problem I have with this.

Not only do PD.commers not have much more time to invest, but I also think that the more organized things move towards, the LESS organized we will all be inclined to work. I honestly think it is impossible for this forum to get organized enough to do any sort of long term project, even if that was the only project on our plate. We can't even get motivated to do have of the simple online things, much less the IRL stuff.

So, basically, any initiative is doomed to failure. Best to keep going as we have been. The idea of discordians sticking apart isn't a mandate, its what actually happens when you get a bunch of discord freaks together. You just can't organize discordians. Its like trying to organize anonymous.

Also, I'm personally not willing to commit to anything, because I have a strong tendency not to finish what I've started. No use starting things that won't get finished.

[whatc]

Well it is a tight group here and hard to get into. Like said, this place isn't for everyone but because of the central domain name it attracts lots of people.
Could there be like an interdiscordian section where other communities/individuals could report on their projects?
OM seems to focus on what happens here and random things that people find elsewhere.
Maybe it would bring some healthy competition and occasional collaboration.

[LMNO]

Just a thought:

The original BIP didn't start with someone saying, "let's get together and do a major project!"  It started due to an ongoing debate about the worth of the original Principia Discordia, and if it was still relevant 40 years on.

One of us decided to hold a contest: Each person would pick an idea in the PD they liked, and write about what they thought it meant, and why it was important.  No prize, just a chance to revisit the PD, pull an idea, and update it.

One of the first essays landed on RAW's "Reality Grids", and stole a PKD phrase, and BIP showed up for the first time.  People seemed to like it, and we spent a lot of time figuring out what the hell we just did.

Eventually, I threw some of the essays into Word, and Pamphlet 1.0 was born.

The rest is... what it is, I suppose.


Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is that any time someone starts a thread with, "We should get together and organize a project..." someone (or someones) will make a big fuss about Discordians Organizing, and how they would rather have fun, or be independent, or not have enough time.

So, my suggestion would be to just start something, and invite people to join you.  identify what they're good at (writing online v doing IRL stuff), and let them decide to play along.  Then see what you've got, and only then figure out what it all adds up to.  If you have a clear goal in mind before you start, you'll never get there; but if you just start playing around with something interesting, you'll get something great you never expected.