fusion centers

[fomenter]

Usually better to target them via a third party site or some sort of neutral venue, its true.  On the other hand, if it ever gets as far as a court, the content of your messages will become very important.  Intent is a massive part of Anglo-American jurisprudence.

it would make the "troll by logical extension to the extreme"  a risky one on some sites. posting far out ideas as a satire or parody of the ones you are trolling might be hard to defend in court..

[Cain]

Yes.  Reductio ad absurdum might look bad, unless you made it really obvious.  This is why having a good character and publically disavowing such people and views is important.

[fomenter]

for keeping your group "discorians" or cabal off the lists?

being ready to quickly disavow and marginalise any one who did something that screws the group is one option, publicly disassociating from the group and reforming under a new banner is another (hope its never necessary).
cabal problems might be harder to get away from, plans for avoiding getting your cabal in trouble might be the best option?

[Pope Lecherous]

for keeping your group "discorians" or cabal off the lists?

being ready to quickly disavow and marginalise any one who did something that screws the group is one option, publicly disassociating from the group and reforming under a new banner is another (hope its never necessary).
cabal problems might be harder to get away from, plans for avoiding getting your cabal in trouble might be the best option?

If you build your group with the mentality that it will dissolve when trouble arises, it will be doomed from the beginning.  What you need is rock solid camaraderie, ideals that the individual will be able to put above themselves,, and each person alibies... if the need arises.  You don't need everyone to be buddy buddy with each other.  But the leaders should be tight with eachother, so that then each leader can independently run their own cells.

If you run your operations in cells, that minimizes risk to the entire group (other cells).

[fomenter]

If you build your group with the mentality that it will dissolve when trouble arises, it will be doomed from the beginning.  What you need is rock solid camaraderie, ideals that the individual will be able to put above themselves,, and each person alibies... if the need arises.  You don't need everyone to be buddy buddy with each other.  But the leaders should be tight with eachother, so that then each leader can independently run their own cells.

If you run your operations in cells, that minimizes risk to the entire group (other cells).

i disagree i am thinking of somebody pulling a "criminally stupid" in the name of discord something on the Tim mcvey level of fail. discordia isn't being supported by saudi oil money or have the good will of a major religion it cant be effective as a hunted rebel group,  there is no reason i or others would want be associated with the actions of a rouge discordian, as i said i think the first action would be to disavow and marginalized to separate ourselves from the attention but ultimately being under serious scrutiny would kill any chance of being effective and quite possibly of having a decent life.
while i am not a "true believerTM" in the beginning of the new global serfdom there is plenty of change going on and with it plenty of opportunity to infect large numbers with the "think for your self" virus, and that is most effectively done from within not as a person on a watch list or in a jail.

rock solid camaraderie sounds fine, but "ideals individuals put above themselves" sounds like the kind of stupidity "think for yourself" is fighting the stupidity that gets idiots to do suicide bombings...

the tactics and applications of cells i will leave to others more knowledgeable to discuss, it sounds good if it avoids drawing attention (see Cain and rats posts on staying off the radar)


edit to add - it doesn't have to be a big event of a type we disagree with, an effective event that was considered a success would raise the same question and each discordian would have to make a choice can you exist/continue to do things if you are on a list and under scrutiny or is the better tactic to remain anonymous

[Elder Iptuous]

iaw FME

[Pope Lecherous]

If you build your group with the mentality that it will dissolve when trouble arises, it will be doomed from the beginning.  What you need is rock solid camaraderie, ideals that the individual will be able to put above themselves,, and each person alibies... if the need arises.  You don't need everyone to be buddy buddy with each other.  But the leaders should be tight with eachother, so that then each leader can independently run their own cells.

If you run your operations in cells, that minimizes risk to the entire group (other cells).

i disagree i am thinking of somebody pulling a "criminally stupid" in the name of discord something on the Tim mcvey level of fail. discordia isn't being supported by saudi oil money or have the good will of a major religion it cant be effective as a hunted rebel group,  there is no reason i or others would want be associated with the actions of a rouge discordian, as i said i think the first action would be to disavow and marginalized to separate ourselves from the attention but ultimately being under serious scrutiny would kill any chance of being effective and quite possibly of having a decent life.
while i am not a "true believerTM" in the beginning of the new global serfdom there is plenty of change going on and with it plenty of opportunity to infect large numbers with the "think for your self" virus, and that is most effectively done from within not as a person on a watch list or in a jail.

rock solid camaraderie sounds fine, but "ideals individuals put above themselves" sounds like the kind of stupidity "think for yourself" is fighting the stupidity that gets idiots to do suicide bombings...

the tactics and applications of cells i will leave to others more knowledgeable to discuss, it sounds good if it avoids drawing attention (see Cain and rats posts on staying off the radar)


edit to add - it doesn't have to be a big event of a type we disagree with, an effective event that was considered a success would raise the same question and each discordian would have to make a choice can you exist/continue to do things if you are on a list and under scrutiny or is the better tactic to remain anonymous

Operating in cells addresses these concerns.

After that don't get caught.

If you do.  The structure of the group will mitigate a lot of the potential need to disavow people.  If someone does something noteworthy but gets caught it should be treated as an achievement,  you don't just turn your back on them even for the sake of your public persona. in cells you may not know him or be easily connected to that person anyways, so it's not really an issue.  The cell can be a source of support for each member.  Like, bail money for example.  simple things like that.  provide people resources they didnt have so opportunities could be realized. etc.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

My Cabal meets as a group rarely, and usually under the guise of a Party. There have been some exceptions, our St Tibbs day Jake sessions, for example.

Usually however, we simply know each others resources, skills and abilities. Rather than working as a Cabal... we work as individuals, that can get resources from other individuals we trust not to ask questions. As most of these people are also my friends, we work cabal work into going to the movies (you can discuss a lot in a nearly empty theater), or having friends over for dinner or going out to dinner etc. Often, depending on what we're doing, we'll create GMail accounts to discuss one idea or another and then abandon the account in short order.

Initially I resisted the GMail idea, because I thought it would look suspicious... However, the "One World By Night" LARP (National Vampire/World of Darkness) players have a GMail account for pretty much every character they own. It seems that lots of people create 'fake identities' with gmail... so I'm not as paranoid about it now.

However, any kind of regular meetings, or major group outings are rare and usually planned to look unrelated:

"Oh, Brian, Lauren, Joe and Bren just happened to be here!"

Otherwise we all have our own interests and projects and a supply of skills at our disposal.

[Pope Lecherous]

My Cabal meets as a group rarely, and usually under the guise of a Party. There have been some exceptions, our St Tibbs day Jake sessions, for example.

Usually however, we simply know each others resources, skills and abilities. Rather than working as a Cabal... we work as individuals, that can get resources from other individuals we trust not to ask questions. As most of these people are also my friends, we work cabal work into going to the movies (you can discuss a lot in a nearly empty theater), or having friends over for dinner or going out to dinner etc. Often, depending on what we're doing, we'll create GMail accounts to discuss one idea or another and then abandon the account in short order.

Initially I resisted the GMail idea, because I thought it would look suspicious... However, the "One World By Night" LARP (National Vampire/World of Darkness) players have a GMail account for pretty much every character they own. It seems that lots of people create 'fake identities' with gmail... so I'm not as paranoid about it now.

However, any kind of regular meetings, or major group outings are rare and usually planned to look unrelated:

"Oh, Brian, Lauren, Joe and Bren just happened to be here!"

Otherwise we all have our own interests and projects and a supply of skills at our disposal.

On joint projects, where does the mission come from?  The meetings?  Or do you have a thinking man familiar with everyone's skills/abilities?

[fomenter]

Operating in cells addresses these concerns.

After that don't get caught.

If you do.  The structure of the group will mitigate a lot of the potential need to disavow people.  If someone does something noteworthy but gets caught it should be treated as an achievement,  you don't just turn your back on them even for the sake of your public persona. in cells you may not know him or be easily connected to that person anyways, so it's not really an issue.  The cell can be a source of support for each member.  Like, bail money for example.  simple things like that.  provide people resources they didnt have so opportunities could be realized. etc.

we don't operate as a cell in some secret organization, we post here and sometimes openly act as discordians  and if somebody draws unwanted or even wanted attention every ones name and information is GOT, and there is not enough money for legal cost, public support, media connections available to bail out one of us much less head off large scale harassment of every one.
i understand the "stand by your buddy's" sentiment and on a cabal, small group level for minor shit it makes sense, as does the cell structure and rats use of other social groupings.
large scale attention (if it results in being harassed or watched) is a different beast   

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

My Cabal meets as a group rarely, and usually under the guise of a Party. There have been some exceptions, our St Tibbs day Jake sessions, for example.

Usually however, we simply know each others resources, skills and abilities. Rather than working as a Cabal... we work as individuals, that can get resources from other individuals we trust not to ask questions. As most of these people are also my friends, we work cabal work into going to the movies (you can discuss a lot in a nearly empty theater), or having friends over for dinner or going out to dinner etc. Often, depending on what we're doing, we'll create GMail accounts to discuss one idea or another and then abandon the account in short order.

Initially I resisted the GMail idea, because I thought it would look suspicious... However, the "One World By Night" LARP (National Vampire/World of Darkness) players have a GMail account for pretty much every character they own. It seems that lots of people create 'fake identities' with gmail... so I'm not as paranoid about it now.

However, any kind of regular meetings, or major group outings are rare and usually planned to look unrelated:

"Oh, Brian, Lauren, Joe and Bren just happened to be here!"

Otherwise we all have our own interests and projects and a supply of skills at our disposal.

On joint projects, where does the mission come from?  The meetings?  Or do you have a thinking man familiar with everyone's skills/abilities?

We are all thinking men (and women and things)... That is if I come up with a plan to build a bunch of "Cloudbusters" and set up an official looking experiment in one of the City parks... I can contact the gang, through normal hanging out or via email with a "Heya, Eris said we should talk:" or something like that.

Next thing you know we have people in Lab Coats and two guys in black to chase us off once we gather a crowd around our 'strange experiments'.



It's kinda like here, except we have a better idea of who can do what... and the ability to say "Bob*, I need to you crank out three wall sized pieces of Illumninati style art" and I can trust (barring anything insane) that Bob will do it.



* not really Bob

[Pope Lecherous]

we don't operate as a cell in some secret organization, we post here and sometimes openly act as discordians  and if somebody draws unwanted or even wanted attention every ones name and information is GOT, and there is not enough money for legal cost, public support, media connections available to bail out one of us much less head off large scale harassment of every one.

Maybe it's time to start, so you wouldnt have to worry about the problems associated with everyone knowing you are in a group.  The relative anonymity will afford you and your people the courage to risk bigger things.

[Pope Lecherous]

We are all thinking men (and women and things)... That is if I come up with a plan to build a bunch of "Cloudbusters" and set up an official looking experiment in one of the City parks... I can contact the gang, through normal hanging out or via email with a "Heya, Eris said we should talk:" or something like that.

Next thing you know we have people in Lab Coats and two guys in black to chase us off once we gather a crowd around our 'strange experiments'.



It's kinda like here, except we have a better idea of who can do what... and the ability to say "Bob*, I need to you crank out three wall sized pieces of Illumninati style art" and I can trust (barring anything insane) that Bob will do it.



* not really Bob

Sounds like you got a decent setup already

Did you have any projects you were interested in but couldn't pull off?  What were your biggest limitations?  Where abouts does all this happen?

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

We are all thinking men (and women and things)... That is if I come up with a plan to build a bunch of "Cloudbusters" and set up an official looking experiment in one of the City parks... I can contact the gang, through normal hanging out or via email with a "Heya, Eris said we should talk:" or something like that.

Next thing you know we have people in Lab Coats and two guys in black to chase us off once we gather a crowd around our 'strange experiments'.



It's kinda like here, except we have a better idea of who can do what... and the ability to say "Bob*, I need to you crank out three wall sized pieces of Illumninati style art" and I can trust (barring anything insane) that Bob will do it.



* not really Bob

Sounds like you got a decent setup already

Did you have any projects you were interested in but couldn't pull off?  What were your biggest limitations?  Where abouts does all this happen?

Yep lots of projects die... one of our failed projects got mentioned here and Cramulus turned it into the highly successful ColbertGASM. We just couldn't get the inertia etc to pull it off.

As of this minute, one of our biggest limitations is real life... one guy just lost his house and got a divorce and moved 90 minutes away, etc etc. We also have less actors at our disposal. Our cabal had a lot of crossover with LARP etc as I mentioned before... often, if we needed "extras" we could pull in our friends who weren't in the Cabal, stick them in a costume or something and *BAM*

And honestly, a lot of our favorite pranks have just been Sjaantze and I. She had this really, really absurd Toucan costume from some Halloween party. We dressed her up in that and me in a dress shirt/tie made up some signs, bought some beef jerky and went into downtown Columbus to promote the new snack food that was gonna be tested in the city (we're a test market, it makes some things very easy).

However, surprisingly, people didn't actually LIKE Toucan Jerky, or at least, they didn't like it when we told them it was toucan...

[fomenter]

this is a be prepared, how to avoid trouble thread, as you mentioned we are not going to be noticed by data collection in their normal operations, there is to much data and we do nothing to warrant notice.
"what if" scenarios "what if we get noticed", and "how to" scenarios how to keep from getting notice are interesting..
one way to avoid the above problem would be to create a new banner to do any high likelihood of recognition  (unwanted attention) ideas under and disassociate it from the discordian name before it happens..