Return to roots.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Hey!

What the fuck is wrong with bitterness and anger?

.
Perhaps it eventually becomes a dehumanizing thing to pursue.
That's my feeling at least.

Good.  I fucking hate humans.   

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Hey!

What the fuck is wrong with bitterness and anger?

its wrong because its merely reactionary - one should try to be happy, even if one is surrounded by crap - mind you, im not saying to ignore how so many things are wrong, just to get over yourself...

i myself am bitter and angry to a certain extent, but its not something that should be idealized

But I'm not happy unless I'm pissed off.  Are you trying to keep me miserable by convincing me to be all smiley and happy all the fucking time, when I'm not?  Should I be JOYFUL because I'm stuck on a planet full of fucking PRIMATES?  Goddammit, the thought alone makes me want to feed orphans into a chipper. 

WHY YES, MY GOOD MAN, I'M JUST FUCKING THRILLED TO BE HERE!  PLEASE SEND MORE STUPID HUMANS TO MAKE ME HAPPIER!  MAYBE THEY CAN DO STUPID PRIMATE TRICKS FOR MY AMUSEMENT AND EDIFICATION!

UNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNG!

[Batty Kissinger]

Hey!

What the fuck is wrong with bitterness and anger?

its wrong because its merely reactionary - one should try to be happy, even if one is surrounded by crap - mind you, im not saying to ignore how so many things are wrong, just to get over yourself...

i myself am bitter and angry to a certain extent, but its not something that should be idealized

But I'm not happy unless I'm pissed off.  Are you trying to keep me miserable by convincing me to be all smiley and happy all the fucking time, when I'm not?  Should I be JOYFUL because I'm stuck on a planet full of fucking PRIMATES?  Goddammit, the thought alone makes me want to feed orphans into a chipper. 

WHY YES, MY GOOD MAN, I'M JUST FUCKING THRILLED TO BE HERE!  PLEASE SEND MORE STUPID HUMANS TO MAKE ME HAPPIER!  MAYBE THEY CAN DO STUPID PRIMATE TRICKS FOR MY AMUSEMENT AND EDIFICATION!

UNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNG!

Yeah, we mostly just hate you.

"A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort." --Herm Albright

I think positivity is the true evil to be relished. To roll around in, like said primates.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Yeah, we mostly just hate you.

Figured as much.  Hater.

"A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort." --Herm Albright

I think positivity is the true evil to be relished. To roll around in, like said primates.

You might have a point...but I gotta be me.

[Jasper]

I'd rather be with people who are grinning than people who are surly and spend their time kicking other people.

Here, you get both. 

[LMNO]

In reference to the last dozen posts or so:

[Cainad (dec.)]

But I'm not happy unless I'm pissed off.  Are you trying to keep me miserable by convincing me to be all smiley and happy all the fucking time, when I'm not?  Should I be JOYFUL because I'm stuck on a planet full of fucking PRIMATES?  Goddammit, the thought alone makes me want to feed orphans into a chipper. 

WHY YES, MY GOOD MAN, I'M JUST FUCKING THRILLED TO BE HERE!  PLEASE SEND MORE STUPID HUMANS TO MAKE ME HAPPIER!  MAYBE THEY CAN DO STUPID PRIMATE TRICKS FOR MY AMUSEMENT AND EDIFICATION!

UNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNG!

maybe you just have issues, lol

never forget, you're a primate too

Are you familiar with the Church of the SubGenius?

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

When I think about the stoner irreligion Discordia of the '60s, I like everyone else here can think of so many things wrong with it. A short burst of creativity was quickly replaced with sameness, apathy, and lots of repetitive drug addled spoutings.

I don' think that's a very accurate summation of the Discordian views in the 60's. The sameness and apathy appear to have arisen with the Internet Discordian phenomena. From all the historical stuff I've read, the active Discordians of the 60's, 70's and 80's were anything but apathetic imitators. In fact, I'd met exactly one angry Discordian before I started hanging out here, plenty of Fnordlings, but the anger, pessimism and apathy seems (to me, based on my personal experience) somewhat more visible here than among many other Discordian groups I've poked at. Maybe they're just hiding it, or maybe they're optimists. I dunno.

Otherwise, that was a beautiful piece Kai! Whatever games you choose to play, I hope they bring you happiness

[Rev Thwack]

Wait, combine UU with discordianism?

Hmm....

"have blind, unquestioning faith in the existence of this big imaginary friend" + "Think for yourself/Question everything"

Oh yea, seems like a perfect match to me.


Sure, I might be marginalizing and misreading the beliefs of UU, but with judeo-christian origins and roots I kind of doubt it. Isn't the understanding that organized religion is a bad thing one of the few point that discordians actually agree on, or did I miss a meeting at some point. These are the organizations that say "look to us for answers instead of yourself, but we'll sometimes let you believe that we really want you to look to yourself for them". The places that use scare tactics to get you to live your life according to what they feel you should or shouldn't do instead of just trying to reason with you on behavioral patterns.


There are two main problems that each and every organized religion suffers from.

1) They are lead by humans/groups of humans, and humans are power hungry bastards from birth who will use/abuse whatever they get in search of more, even if they start out with good intentions and ideas.

2) The religion as an organism becomes more concerned with its own survival than the well being, liberties, interests, and happiness of the individual.


I'm not trying to say you can't be a member of a church and a discordian at the same time, but will you all please stop trying to tell me how church a or religion b mixes so well with it? It's like combining your bed and diarrhea... sure, you can do it, but it's not really somewhere you want to curl up and take a nice nap.

[That One Guy]

Wait, combine UU with discordianism?

Hmm....

"have blind, unquestioning faith in the existence of this big imaginary friend" + "Think for yourself/Question everything"

Oh yea, seems like a perfect match to me.

Yeah, that blind faith is why my UU hymnals had the word "God" completely removed. Ever been to a UU service? 

Sure, I might be marginalizing and misreading the beliefs of UU, but with judeo-christian origins and roots I kind of doubt it. Isn't the understanding that organized religion is a bad thing one of the few point that discordians actually agree on, or did I miss a meeting at some point. These are the organizations that say "look to us for answers instead of yourself, but we'll sometimes let you believe that we really want you to look to yourself for them". The places that use scare tactics to get you to live your life according to what they feel you should or shouldn't do instead of just trying to reason with you on behavioral patterns.


There are two main problems that each and every organized religion suffers from.

1) They are lead by humans/groups of humans, and humans are power hungry bastards from birth who will use/abuse whatever they get in search of more, even if they start out with good intentions and ideas.

2) The religion as an organism becomes more concerned with its own survival than the well being, liberties, interests, and happiness of the individual.


I'm not trying to say you can't be a member of a church and a discordian at the same time, but will you all please stop trying to tell me how church a or religion b mixes so well with it? It's like combining your bed and diarrhea... sure, you can do it, but it's not really somewhere you want to curl up and take a nice nap.

It helps when you actually are familiar with the religion you're bashing. UU is not really similar to any other organized religion - it's based on the TFY,S principle in that you find what works for you and run with it. My minister when I was growing up was Jewish. We had a very active CUUPs segment (Covenant of Unitarian Universalist Pagans), as well as a VERY large Secular Humanist faction.

Also, the closest we ever got to "prayer" was a moment of silence. So, if you're going to speak out your ass, at least do a LITTLE research first.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Wait, combine UU with discordianism?

Hmm....

"have blind, unquestioning faith in the existence of this big imaginary friend" + "Think for yourself/Question everything"

Oh yea, seems like a perfect match to me.

Yeah, that blind faith is why my UU hymnals had the word "God" completely removed. Ever been to a UU service? 

Sure, I might be marginalizing and misreading the beliefs of UU, but with judeo-christian origins and roots I kind of doubt it. Isn't the understanding that organized religion is a bad thing one of the few point that discordians actually agree on, or did I miss a meeting at some point. These are the organizations that say "look to us for answers instead of yourself, but we'll sometimes let you believe that we really want you to look to yourself for them". The places that use scare tactics to get you to live your life according to what they feel you should or shouldn't do instead of just trying to reason with you on behavioral patterns.


There are two main problems that each and every organized religion suffers from.

1) They are lead by humans/groups of humans, and humans are power hungry bastards from birth who will use/abuse whatever they get in search of more, even if they start out with good intentions and ideas.

2) The religion as an organism becomes more concerned with its own survival than the well being, liberties, interests, and happiness of the individual.


I'm not trying to say you can't be a member of a church and a discordian at the same time, but will you all please stop trying to tell me how church a or religion b mixes so well with it? It's like combining your bed and diarrhea... sure, you can do it, but it's not really somewhere you want to curl up and take a nice nap.

It helps when you actually are familiar with the religion you're bashing. UU is not really similar to any other organized religion - it's based on the TFY,S principle in that you find what works for you and run with it. My minister when I was growing up was Jewish. We had a very active CUUPs segment (Covenant of Unitarian Universalist Pagans), as well as a VERY large Secular Humanist faction.

Also, the closest we ever got to "prayer" was a moment of silence. So, if you're going to speak out your ass, at least do a LITTLE research first.

THIS is the correct universal motorcycle. UU eschews dogma in favor of discussion and doctrine in favor of decency. While I don't personally find it fulfilling (25 years of church was far too much), it most certainly doesn't deserve to be lumped in with the general malaise of religions in the wild today. It's more like a community support group that accepts 'spirituality' as OK, however people define it.

[Rev Thwack]

Sure, I might be marginalizing and misreading the beliefs of UU

Pretty sure it was evident in my post that I was admitting that I didn't know much about UU. Everything I've found online so far about it stresses the ties to a jewish/christian origin, which will lead pretty much everyone to believe that it has at least some tie with the main belief they have... the belief in god. Actually, considering that is The core belief in those religions, you kind of actually have to have a belief in god to have a tie to them.

Just because you guys don't have a "let's all talk to our imaginary friend" moment doesn't mean that it's still not the focus either... although I don't remember having ever mentioned anything at all about prayer, since it's not required for you to talk to a god just because you believe in it.


Being based on a "that's fine for you" principal doesn't free an organization from falling into the two main trappings either.... the thing is, those two are actually a part of any large organization, not just religions. The main difference between a religion falling victim to them and, say, GM is that you don't live your life and base your spiritual faith around what a car company says (or at least I really fucking hope not).



And if you're getting all worked up over me talking bad about your religion, then you've obviously fallen way too deep into it and are no longer looking objectively/humorously at things. Pull your head out of it's ass for a few minutes and remember to question your own beliefs.

[That One Guy]

Here's the sum total of UU dogma:

There are seven principles which Unitarian Universalist congregations affirm and promote:

    * The inherent worth and dignity of every person;
    * Justice, equity and compassion in human relations;
    * Acceptance of one another and encouragement to spiritual growth in our congregations;
    * A free and responsible search for truth and meaning;
    * The right of conscience and the use of the democratic process within our congregations and in society at large;
    * The goal of world community with peace, liberty, and justice for all;
    * Respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part.

That's it. See anything about God? Prayer? Dogma?

I'll be the first to admit UU suffers from the usual organizational pitfalls, if not more than most - a committee system will do that to you every time, and UU is nothing if not a committee system from an organizational standpoint, subject to all the usual annoyances and pitfalls of any committee system. It's why I don't bother going to UU churches, and haven't been to one since I was 18, way back in 1994. I kept the useful bits (the 7 points outlined above) and ditched the obnoxious organizational committee crap.

And if you're getting all worked up over me talking bad about your religion, then you've obviously fallen way too deep into it and are no longer looking objectively/humorously at things. Pull your head out of it's ass for a few minutes and remember to question your own beliefs.

I'm getting worked up because you're not even close to accurate in your statements about UU. I might have taken a harsh tone, but when someone misses the mark that badly, it's hard to take it as other than accusations made in willful ignorance (especially when you admit you're probably talking out your ass). Amazingly, and this is especially true for those raised UU such as myself, being lumped in with the "organized" religions is a guaranteed way to raise the hackles. Congrats on that.

Check out the main UU site - read a bit from the people actually doing it.

http://www.uua.org/index.shtml

I'll be the first to admit I have my own beliefs and opinions, but they're not set in stone and I take accusations that they are less than lightly. If you can point out where I've not "questioned my own beliefs" rather than pointed out how spectacularly wrong you are about UU, show me and I'll be happy to admit it.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Sure, I might be marginalizing and misreading the beliefs of UU

Pretty sure it was evident in my post that I was admitting that I didn't know much about UU. Everything I've found online so far about it stresses the ties to a jewish/christian origin, which will lead pretty much everyone to believe that it has at least some tie with the main belief they have... the belief in god. Actually, considering that is The core belief in those religions, you kind of actually have to have a belief in god to have a tie to them.

Just because you guys don't have a "let's all talk to our imaginary friend" moment doesn't mean that it's still not the focus either... although I don't remember having ever mentioned anything at all about prayer, since it's not required for you to talk to a god just because you believe in it.


Being based on a "that's fine for you" principal doesn't free an organization from falling into the two main trappings either.... the thing is, those two are actually a part of any large organization, not just religions. The main difference between a religion falling victim to them and, say, GM is that you don't live your life and base your spiritual faith around what a car company says (or at least I really fucking hope not).



And if you're getting all worked up over me talking bad about your religion, then you've obviously fallen way too deep into it and are no longer looking objectively/humorously at things. Pull your head out of it's ass for a few minutes and remember to question your own beliefs.

The Cosmic Schmuck Principle holds that if you don't wake up, once a month at least, and realize that you have been acting like a Cosmic Schmuck again then you will probably go on acting like a cosmic schmuck forever; but if you do, occasionally, recognize your Cosmic Schmuckiness, then you might begin to become a little less Schmucky that the general human average at this primitive stage of terrestrial evolution.

Just sayin'.....

[Rev Thwack]

Here's the sum total of UU dogma:

There are seven principles which Unitarian Universalist congregations affirm and promote:

    * The inherent worth and dignity of every person;
    * Justice, equity and compassion in human relations;
    * Acceptance of one another and encouragement to spiritual growth in our congregations;
    * A free and responsible search for truth and meaning;
    * The right of conscience and the use of the democratic process within our congregations and in society at large;
    * The goal of world community with peace, liberty, and justice for all;
    * Respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part.

That's it. See anything about God? Prayer? Dogma?

No, I see seven principals that are almost exactly the same thing that every other organized religion tries to claim it sticks to, even if that claim doesn't really mesh up with reality. Sure, it doesn't mention god, but why does their own website talk up judeo-christian roots if it doesn't share their main belief? Fine, doesn't say anything about prayer... neither do the 10 commandments, since it's possible for something to be included as part of a religion but not actually on an itemized list of it's basic core beliefs. Ok, no dogma there except that you called it their dogma, but once again, a bullet list of core beliefs a religion holds doesn't always include any/all of that religion's dogma, or do you think such a list of judaism is going to list cutting a baby boy's dick?

I'll be the first to admit UU suffers from the usual organizational pitfalls, if not more than most - a committee system will do that to you every time, and UU is nothing if not a committee system from an organizational standpoint, subject to all the usual annoyances and pitfalls of any committee system. It's why I don't bother going to UU churches, and haven't been to one since I was 18, way back in 1994. I kept the useful bits (the 7 points outlined above) and ditched the obnoxious organizational committee crap.

So you admit that you've gotten fed up with some of the crap that makes up the church, and as such have distanced yourself from it while keeping just its core values and principals, yet still say that the church isn't bad and has nothing in common with the irritants that plague others.... seems like you're either arguing against yourself or saying one thing while practicing another.

I'm getting worked up because you're not even close to accurate in your statements about UU. I might have taken a harsh tone, but when someone misses the mark that badly, it's hard to take it as other than accusations made in willful ignorance (especially when you admit you're probably talking out your ass). Amazingly, and this is especially true for those raised UU such as myself, being lumped in with the "organized" religions is a guaranteed way to raise the hackles. Congrats on that.

Wait, so you say it is your religion, that it is an organization which suffers all the pitfalls or other organizations, that it has seven main principals which are actually pretty close to the principals of many other religions, yet it's not fair for me to put it in a grouping with the other main organized religions of the world? This is the exact same thing all other members of organized religions spout when they say "My religion has it right and is different from the others".

I'll be the first to admit I have my own beliefs and opinions, but they're not set in stone and I take accusations that they are less than lightly. If you can point out where I've not "questioned my own beliefs" rather than pointed out how spectacularly wrong you are about UU, show me and I'll be happy to admit it.

How about the fact that I've been talking about not just your religion which you jumped in to defend, but about organized religions in general and how the blind acceptance they require for continued belief in them is a contradiction to the principal of questioning everything. I never once tried to say that your beliefs are set in stone and can't change, but unless you constantly try to pick them apart and re-evaluate them, they are going to stay the same. This response of yours where you instantly jump in to respond in a heated manner over a perceived slight against your religion is actually the blind acceptance of it that I'm arguing against... or in other words, you're proving my point for me. While Ratatosk's response was focused around places where I might have misconceptions regarding UU and attempting to correct them, your first post was more of a kneejerk reaction lacking in substance but filled with attempts at insults. If you do question your beliefs, you wouldn't be as quick to respond angrily to someone talking bad about them while admitting that they are not all that familiar with them and instead would take the opportunity to try to explain, possibly gaining a deeper understanding yourself.