The Prankster and the Conspiracy

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

So I think the worth of the PD shouldn't be measured against Kerry's life.

Agreed. I also don't think Kerry's life should be measured by one bad incident.

[parabolee]

Well, neither of them were the main creator, as the PD is a collection of many different people... Thornley and Hill were the ones first inspired to start it and were very vocal in promoting it, but the book itself has many different authors (later editions have even more).

However, your personal judgments are yours to make. Since the PD has nothing to do with Child Molestation, and since Thornley's incident didn't happen until years after the PD had been written, I'm not sure that I agree with your position...

but hey, "To each their own" said the old lady as she kissed the cow.... 

I think you misunderstand my position. Which to be clear is thus -

I was shocked and disturbed to discover this revelation. I was very disappointed and saddened to discover this about someone I admired. However due to his physiological decline in these later years I am happy to be able to consider the man that did this, not the same great man that is responsible for the work I admire.

However I am relieved that the Principia's existence is not owed only to this man because of this event, as it would interfere with my enjoyment of the work.

Your posts makes it sound like you believe my position is that I have chosen to abandon my love of Principia due to this. Which is not the case at all. It is also not the case that I have chosen to judge Kerry's entire life and work due to this one event. I do not understand why you are of the opinion that this is my opinion

[hooplala]

I don't know if "crazy" cuts it in this situation.  The fact that he closed and locked the door indicates to me that he very much knew what he was doing was considered wrong by most people.

[parabolee]

I don't know if "crazy" cuts it in this situation.  The fact that he closed and locked the door indicates to me that he very much knew what he was doing was considered wrong by most people.

Well you can be aware that what you are ding is wrong but still not of your right mind. That is to say, quite possibly this was no longer the same man that contributed to PD.

But maybe that is wishful thinking.

[hooplala]

From what I've been able to discern, his input seems minimal.  What he did write is attributed to him, and it amounts mostly to little stanzas written in the style of the Bible.  It would seem that Mal2 wrote the lion's share.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

My guess is that he was both insane AND knew that what he was doing was wrong.

[Cramulus]

From what I've been able to discern, his input seems minimal.  What he did write is attributed to him, and it amounts mostly to little stanzas written in the style of the Bible.  It would seem that Mal2 wrote the lion's share.

how can you tell who wrote which sections?

[hooplala]

From what I've been able to discern, his input seems minimal.  What he did write is attributed to him, and it amounts mostly to little stanzas written in the style of the Bible.  It would seem that Mal2 wrote the lion's share.

how can you tell who wrote which sections?

He is quoted in many places as stating that the Principia Discordia was delivered to his (Mal's) pineal gland from Eris.  And, a lot of parts are attributed to Omar or the Purple Sage, so I think its safe to assume that Mal wrote most of the PD, and attributed Kerry when it was appropriate. 

I'm not saying there isn't a big chance I'm wrong, that's just my take on it.

[parabolee]

Well according to the interview with Mal-2 in the Steve Jackson edition, Kerry would read then rewrite some of Mal-2's work and then Mal-2 would re-write it again before he was happy with it. And Kerry contributed the parts attributed to him of course.

While that does not seem "minimal". It is clearly a great deal less than Mal-2, who should be considered the main writer/creator/inspiration of PD. At least that is how Mal-2 sees it. Or claims to see it in the alleged interview :-D

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Well, neither of them were the main creator, as the PD is a collection of many different people... Thornley and Hill were the ones first inspired to start it and were very vocal in promoting it, but the book itself has many different authors (later editions have even more).

However, your personal judgments are yours to make. Since the PD has nothing to do with Child Molestation, and since Thornley's incident didn't happen until years after the PD had been written, I'm not sure that I agree with your position...

but hey, "To each their own" said the old lady as she kissed the cow.... 

I think you misunderstand my position. Which to be clear is thus -

I was shocked and disturbed to discover this revelation. I was very disappointed and saddened to discover this about someone I admired. However due to his physiological decline in these later years I am happy to be able to consider the man that did this, not the same great man that is responsible for the work I admire.

However I am relieved that the Principia's existence is not owed only to this man because of this event, as it would interfere with my enjoyment of the work.

Your posts makes it sound like you believe my position is that I have chosen to abandon my love of Principia due to this. Which is not the case at all. It is also not the case that I have chosen to judge Kerry's entire life and work due to this one event. I do not understand why you are of the opinion that this is my opinion

That is how I read your posts, so I'm glad that you and I seem to be on the same page

It was surprising to me as well... though (as I said in the earlier post) it seems to me that Thornley's view of sex was different that the view of what we consider a sexual predator. That is, his view of sex was that everyone should enjoy it and he didn't seem to consider a child, chair, grandmother, cow, etc to be any different. So while that was a bit of a shock, it does seem very different that someone looking to jump a kid... Thornley just seemed to be looking to jump anything. (Not OK, but it seems like a very different mental state).

All in all, I really enjoyed the book precisely because it shows Kerry and Greg in all their human fallibility.  That Mal-2 shutdown his pineal gland, because a greyest of greyface and and spent the last decades of his life exploring the bottom of a bottle rather than the infinite lands of Limbo... all because of a woman (damn wominz!!!) or that Kerry spent time living in a storm drain, divorced his wife because he couldn't deal with the responsibilities of being a husband and father... those, for me, make the message of the PD all the more chilling.

As much as these two ripped up their BiP, as handily as they escaped the Prison of mundane existence, in the end, they were still just as trapped in other ways, in other prisons. In Kerry's case, the prison was never the greyfaced hunchbraind one of normalcy... but he really became a sad and pathetic individual based on the accounts given by his closest friends. Between being convinced that everyone was a CIA plant (including RAW), to thinking that he really MUST HAVE helped kill JFK, to wandering homeless from renovated chicken coop to furnace room...

As free as they were, they still died in prisons.

For me, that was a very powerful message.

[Telarus]

Rat, have you read the 'Dreadlock Recollections'? JohnnyBrainwash and I actually found a definition for 'Catma' in there. Might be a good contrast to TP&TC. I haven't read it all the way through myself.

http://www.ovo127.com/zines/ovo017.html

[Pope Lecherous]

I don't know if "crazy" cuts it in this situation.  The fact that he closed and locked the door indicates to me that he very much knew what he was doing was considered wrong by most people.

Crazy in that sense wouldnt cut it in a courtroom but it seems to be a not far-off label, standard of behavior many people think is unacceptable.

[parabolee]

Rat, have you read the 'Dreadlock Recollections'? JohnnyBrainwash and I actually found a definition for 'Catma' in there. Might be a good contrast to TP&TC. I haven't read it all the way through myself.

http://www.ovo127.com/zines/ovo017.html

Thanks for the link, looks to be a very interesting book. I had not known of it's existence.

Although I could find no reference to any opinion or incident of sex with an under-age people in this book. Also the only reference to "catma" I found was this -

"In 1964, living in Shirlington, Virginia, and corresponding with Greg Hill, I suggested that our satirical religion, the Discordian Society, which Greg and I had originated in California before going to New Orleans, needed a dogma – or , as we called it, a catma. Brother-in-law's comment was in the back of my mind when I therefore determined that it should be the Law of Fives: Everything happens in fives – or can in some other way be connected with the number five.  Slim Brooks was our fourth convert to the Discordian Society and, as might be anticipated, Brother-in-law was the fifth person to join that facetious cult devoted to the Greek goddess of confusion, Eris – known to the Romans as Discordia. "

This quote also suggests more involvement in the creation on Discordianism than those above (including myself) had thought (hoped?). He was responsible for the rule of fives theory by his claim anyway.

Although it still seems that Mal-2 is responsible for putting together the PD along with most of it's content.

[Telarus]

Ah, you tried a word search, eh? In this instance, he spells it "Katma":

p215

Brunswick, the bowling alley in which Greg and I first disorganized the Discordian Society, is mentioned in the Oracles of Nostradamus, which I only discovered recently. So that is an authentic miracle – especially since it says something about chaos emerging from Brunswick! All bowling alleys are sacred to Discordians – since most of them have Brunswick pin setting equipment. A synchronistic coincidence that proves a dogma like that is called a Katma – a combination of karma and dogma. Actually I'm not a reincarnation of Edgar Cayce, no matter what they say.

I'm a reincarnation of Jean Dixon.

Artwork by my friend POPJellyfish:

[parabolee]

Ah, good job. Nice find!