The Sacred Chao Te Ching

[Bu🤠ns]

I think 'Wise Spag" is probably the funniest term I've heard all week. 

[Bu🤠ns]

BTW
http://www.wayist.org/ttc%20compared/

[Bu🤠ns]

71 original:
To know that you do not know is the best.
To think you know when you do not is a disease.
Recognizing this disease as a disease is to be free of it.
The wise are free of disease,
because they recognize the disease as a disease.
Therefore they are free of disease.
---------------------------------------------------

SPAG:

Being really REAL for realness is self-imprisonment.
A Pinealist looks at his bars and sees iron.
A Wise Spag looks at her bars and sees reflection.
As the mirror grows deeper the inquiry increases.

The Wise Spag doesn't come to a conclusion
but plays mind games for fun and profit.

[LMNO]

I like that one.

Cram, you need to upload the rest of the chapters!

[LMNO]

Incidentally Burns, we could use some help with 13, 17, and 19.

[Cramulus]

A Pinealist looks at his bars and sees iron.

I don't follow that line

Cram, you need to upload the rest of the chapters!

will do soon, just don't have time at the moment. For now, if you're translating a later chapter, paste the text on that [currently blank] page. I'll insert it into the manuscript when it's prepared.


in general:
try to avoid using unexplained acronyms and terms
I saw a few TFYS and KYSFTBs in there, which will mystify many of our readers
"pinealist" is very local slang

[LMNO]

I disagree.  The Tao is full of vague and undefined terms.  "The 10,000 things" for example.

As far as "A Pinealist looks at his bars and sees iron," I read that as all the people who read the BIP and see it as Depressing; they read that there is No Escape, and find it pessimistic.

[Bu🤠ns]

A Pinealist looks at his bars and sees iron.

I don't follow that line

It's pretty basic.  Pinealism, or the act getting caught up in the discordian symbols rather than the idea itself.  Falling into the trap of 'knowing' rather than inquiry.  the BIP isn't really a prison with Iron bars but a method of self-reflection/discovery...etc.

is there a better term for pinealist?

and i'll go ahead and expand my earlier TFYS acronym.

[Cramulus]

ah I get it now, but the meaning "someone who takes symbols literally" doesn't come through from the word Pinealist (unless you post at PD)

The "eating the menu" metaphor (used elsewhere) may need a bit more explanation too. I'm sure we'll find a suitable chapter for it somewhere.

I disagree.  The Tao is full of vague and undefined terms.  "The 10,000 things" for example.

Mm, yes, but there's a difference.. the TTC lets people come to their own conclusions about the meaning of certain concepts.
in contrast, we're using short hand ("pinealist", "eating the menu", "barstool") to reference discussions that we've had. I think we should avoid that kind of stuff where possible -- it's equivalent to referencing an in-joke that we haven't filled them in on.

Some tinkering on 71:
Trying not to be a poser is self-imprisonment.

The Wise Spag doesn't come to a conclusion
but plays mind games for fun

A conclusion is just where she stopped thinking

[Bu🤠ns]

oh and as far as Pinealist goes:

I tend to look at the TTC as a sort of guide for not getting in one's own way. (among other things).

It might be useful to have a symbol, like Pinealist or something else, to help differentiate one who gets in ones own way with something like the Wise Spag who flows with the way of things better.  Chapter 71 compares those who are sick with knowledge as opposed to those who are not. I'm just saying that having a few reoccurring symbols might actually help to clarify our discordian themes while still maintaining the integrity of the original message.

[Cramulus]

I agree. How can we sum up "doing it wrong" from a zenarchist perspective?

Grayface?
Cabbage?
Bureaucrat?

they all have their own flavor

[LMNO]

Again, I disagree.

The TTC doesn't spell it out for people.  It makes vague poetic references, and then forces the reader to think it through.

If we are not allowed to use shorthand terms for extremely complex discussions, this will get extremely long-winded.

[LMNO]

There's some chapter in the TTC that talks about the wise man, the regular man, and the fool.

In fact, there are several passages that define the Fool.

Can't we use those chapters to define Pinealist?

The TTC isn't linear; later chapters refine previous ones.

[Bu🤠ns]

Some tinkering on 71:
Trying not to be a poser is self-imprisonment.

The Wise Spag doesn't come to a conclusion
but plays mind games for fun

A conclusion is just where she stopped thinking

I see you're moving away from the BIP metaphor....are the BIP ideas not really fitting with this sort of project because they're specific to this website?  I guess I'm just looking for some more specific criteria to follow for any possible future posts.  Again i think the personal PD.com touch would be nice provided that the ideas can stand on their own.

I agree. How can we sum up "doing it wrong" from a zenarchist perspective?

Grayface?
Cabbage?
Bureaucrat?

they all have their own flavor

I think Cabbage is apt as it can apply to everyone.  Greyface is more toward a specific individual and Bureaucrat is more in line a specific role.

There's some chapter in the TTC that talks about the wise man, the regular man, and the fool.

In fact, there are several passages that define the Fool.

Can't we use those chapters to define Pinealist?

The TTC isn't linear; later chapters refine previous ones.

I definitely think outlining specific symbols for everyone to use on this project will establish consistency.  That could be a big hurdle since there is more than one author.

[LMNO]

I'm using BIP and PD.com metaphors all over the place, because that's how I understand Discordia.

I'm guessing my chapters are headed for the circular files, huh?