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A critique of the BIP

Started by Arafelis, June 07, 2009, 05:41:13 AM

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Arafelis

Continued from the discussion here.

I'm going to make some conjecture about the goals of the BIP, or at least the goals of its authors.  I'm almost certainly going to be wrong at least once about something, and I'm perfectly happy to have this happen and be corrected.

I'm also going to act like a bit of an erudite snob at points, and I don't want it to be mistaken for an affectation or, worse, Eris forbid, the consequence of an academic approach to this subject.  It is in fact a basic tenet of my character.

'k.

I suspect the BIP was written as a means of introducing non-Discordians to Discordianism, interesting them, and hopefully converting some.  It was also written in order to shake people up a little and get them thinking about their life situation.  I also think it was written as catharsis for its authors, who now have something I'd say only about half of all Discordians have, a publication on the web expressing their beliefs and frustrations, and something only about half a percent of all Discordians have, a nicely-formatted publication on the web.  Of the three goals, I think the second one was foremost in the minds of many of the authors as they were writing.

I'm going to do a critique by section, and try for some overall comments at the end.  The theme and, significantly, quality of each piece is too varied for me to do otherwise.

I'm kind of dreading this, but I'm going to start at the beginning.

  • 1) Welcome To Prison

    I'm dreading it because I think the opening is one of the weakest parts of the BIP, and I don't like saying that.  It doesn't do anything for me as a critic interested in improving Discordian writing to start out by saying, "Well, okay, but, this sucks."  But if I'm going to do it, I might as well ignore all human compassion and forever alienate the author.  Welcome To Prison is trite.  It's a rehash of Plato's Cave, and there's nothing necessarily wrong with that (never been a fan, but it's a solid and time-tested metaphor for thinking for yourself schmucks), but it's Plato's Cave by a highschool goth rocker.

    And what's with all this call-and-response?  Is it effective?  Enjoyable?  Does it make the reader want to keep reading?  Is it going to entice you into turning the page?  Do you want to leap up and answer the writer's every question?  Or do you feel like Lassie?  Huh?  Do you, girl?  Huh?  Huh?

    Yeah, well, get yourself a treat.  Me, I feel like I'm getting hit in the face with a fucking condescention bat.  I'm not your fuckin' dog, and your evocative questions evoke nothing in me but UNMITIGATED RAGE.  The first time I read that page, I closed the BIP.  The second time I read the BIP, I skipped it.

    What I LIKE about this section: Like I said, Plato's Cave is a time-tested metaphor.  We've been using that shit for years.  If you're going to crib off've a Realist, you chose the fuckin' master.  I mean, I hate pretty much everything Plato stands for, and I still laugh at his jokes.

    I also like the sentiment.  I mean, once you get past the condescention bat, it's kind of... bic-in-the-air, you know?  Fuck yeah, imposed reality's a prison.  Preach it, bro'!  (or sis, whatever.  Goth rocking is available to all genders).

    So here's what I'd suggest for improving this section.  First, tone down, heavily, the call-response bits.  As an oratory tradition, it's great.  In text... not so much.  Corollary here: Don't put words in peoples' mouths.  People hate that.  (ha-ha.)  Seriously, though, it's obnoxious -- it makes the author come across as a total prick.  Same for calling the reader 'kid' (or 'kiddo').  Being diminutized by an unknown person tends to put people on edge, make them hostile to the message.  Once you've done that, if you do that, I might have more suggestions, but it's so heavy right now that I can hardly read past it to the meat of the stuff underneath.

  • 2) The Two Man Con

    This is a much stronger piece because it's more subtle.  It draws out a situation to make the point.  Other than some minor editing issues, my major concern is that feels a little rushed to make its point (which is probably just because it wants to make said point in a single page).  I don't think it needs to be lengthened, the author might want to expand a bit on the fourth paragraph's point, the idea that the choices being offered are transactional and largely illusionary.

    Editing issues, btw, in paragraph number-dash-sentence number format: 4-3, extra comma: "of freedom, in order" should lose it.  4-6, capitalize Left to preserve style.  5-5, "without" should be "with."  5-5, write out number to preserve style.  8-1, "aren"t" should be "aren't."  Those are just the ones that interfered with the flow on the page... could make other suggestions, but those are the ones that leapt out at me.

  • 3) Who Wrote This?

    It's kind of a "meh" piece.  It kinda made me feel like I was watching Forgetting Sarah Marshall again.  But it's not a bad bit, exactly.  I just kind of turn the page.

  • 4) What The Hell Are You Doing?

    I don't grok.  Why is there a foreward to the book after the introduction to the book?

    Okay, we get it.  This Is A Strange Book Of Things That Aren't Part Of The Establishment.  Isn't That So Indie.  Yes It Is.

    You could move it to the very front of the book, or kill it.  Either's an improvement.

  • 5) What The Hell Are You Reading?

    Alright!  Now we're getting somewhere!

    We're this community... People need to think for themselves... yeah, it's... wait.  Didn't I read this before?  It kinda sounds ...almost just like the third essay, "Who Wrote This!"

    Okay, okay, it's not actually a flat rehash.  And to be honest, I like this one.  But I think it should be folded into Who Wrote This, rather than presented as a separate entry.  They're on the same subject from basically the same point of view.  Yeah, they're probably not by the same person, but there's nothing wrong with a little collab from time to time.

  • 6) A Touch Of The Con

    *rubs head*  I'll come back to this later.

  • 7) The Parable Of The Gong

    I'm old-school like 300 baud, and I've gotta admit, this appeals to me.  So my immediate question is: Why's it here?

    Whoa, lemme step that back a second.  This reads like a chunk of early Discordian zenarchy parable.  It doesn't seem to fit with the rest of the book.  I absolutely don't want it gone -- I'm just curious why it was chosen for inclusion.  If it was an editing choice for structural reasons, I definitely approve of the humorous touch at this point in the compilation.

  • 8 ) Can You Feel It Coming?

    Alright, a touch of the Lassie-bat, but overall it's a solid piece.  It's like printing "BE SKEPTICAL OF THE SKEPTICS" on a page, but people will actually read it and may even 'get it.'  In a lot of ways, it's the strongest piece in the book.  I enjoyed the previous chapter more, but this one quickly and solidly provides a salient point.  It wouldn't stand on its own that well, but it fits nicely into and in many ways improves on the text surrounding it.  In the current stage of revision of the project, I'd call this the Sermon on Ethics and Love of the BIP...

    if it ended on the first page.  The second page is still strong, but it stops letting the reader draw their own conclusions and hands some to him.  (Him, because, in this case, it's me.)  They aren't bad conclusions (by which I of course mean I, personally, do not disagree much with them), but it's like putting someone on a rollercoaster, hauling them to the exciting top of a precipice!... and then letting them settle in for a fifteen minute El ride to the next stop.  Well, that was mildly pleasant!

    My advice would be to split this up into two actually separate essays, space apart in the book.

  • 9) This Morning

    No comments for now.  Liked the essay.  Will edit later.
"OTOH, I shook up your head...I must be doing something right.What's wrong with schisms?  Malaclypse the younger DID say "Discordians need to DISORGANIZE."  If my babbling causes a few sparks, well hell...it beats having us backslide into our own little greyness." - The Good Reverend Roger

Arafelis

#1
  • 10) Jailbreaking For Idiots

    I'm gonna admit a bias against chanspeak right here, so you don't suspect it of me later and then I have to lie and say, "No, of course I'm a totally up-front and unbiased critic!  What good could I possibly be if I weren't?"  So my personal read stutters a bit at the owly and srs.

    But that aside, this one offers us Questions We Get To Answer For Ourselves!  Oh, happy, frumious day!  Calloo callay!  Right-o.  Okay, they do kind of lead a little, but overall it comes across as well-intentioned.  And yeah, it has the endemic problem of feeling a little philosophically immature, but again, it comes across okay.

    I'd question the need for the distracting pronoun/verb agreement.  I don't think you need it to make your points, and it's often better (yeah, even in Disco) to bring your reader along rather than shutting them out.  Which you do by conning them to make them believe that you think like they do (and that All Of Us Together think like the canon), so, yay hypocrisy, our old friend.  Up to you on that one.

  • 11) Further Explorations

    I'm a bit perplexed here.  I've never heard Mr. Wizard sound so depressed before!

    Alright, it's a mostly-sensible introduction to the noumenal, kinda.  I think it's happy to be what it is, an edutainment piece, and so I'm going to leave it be for now.  If anyone wants a more in-depth criticism of this section, I'll revisit it... Bueller?  Bueller?  ...Yeah.

  • 12) toxicity

    It's been said that free verse is prose for the lazy, and here I've gotta agree.

    I like that someone did something structurally different, and I find the format intriguing and accessible.  But there's no force.  It's a lounge song advocating bulimia.

    Why include it?  What's it bringing to the book?

  • 13) Ego Sickness

    I'll come back to it, maybe.  It's alright.  I don't feel very qualified to criticize the section because I'm already so familiar with the point of view being expressed.  You'd get a much better critique from somebody who'd never heard the term 'meme' before.  I think one of their first questions, which is only answered sidelong in the essay, would be: "What's a meme?"

  • 14) Something And Nothing, Truth And Lies

    I actually wrote section 15 before this one.  At this point I'm kind of worn out.  I like this section (especially the opening paragraph) but I think it needs to be tightened up.  The points about lies vs truth could be a little better-constructed (from both a mythological standpoint and from a literary one).

  • 15) A Conclusion Is Simply Where You Stopped Thinking

    Like essay 8, this one starts out spiking my Rage-O-Meter with a Platonic dialogue in which my answers are pre-assumed, and if they differ from the script, well, too bad for me.

    Unlike that chapter, it doesn't fix it.  First, a foolproof thing *is* a thing designed for fools.  By definition.  Second, STOP TALKING AND SAY SOMETHING.  The thesis sentence for this essay is: "What's more important [than us conveying our vision to you] is... the ability and know-how to see the world and the universe for what they really are."  So tell me more about that.  I don't care about my Kindergarten cubbies, the fact that I'm stuck in Plato's cave has been THOROUGHLY DRILLED INTO MY HEAD BY THIS POINT, THANK YOU.  You don't have to re-introduce yourself, man!  Your whole book does that for you!  Give me something else.

    You want to talk about decision making -- that's awesome.  Tell me something about decision making.  What's a choice with non-finite options look like?  Or whatever.  I don't care, I'm just so fucking sick of introductions to the point.  You've stripped me of my illusions; I am nude before your ultimate reality.  Now can I please, please have a towel?

  • 16) Siddhartha

    Not my favorite book by Hesse, but still, not something I'm going to challenge.

    Quote's appropriate to the book.  I kind of wonder at devoting an entire page to it this late in the piece, but hey.  Could be worse.

  • 17) Page 23

    17-23, that's nice.

    Anyway, both the best and worse I can say about this bit is that it's cute.  It doesn't quite fit -- in fact (flips quickly through earlier chapters) I'm pretty sure there haven't been any messages at all about Eris (or Bob) in the book, so all this stuff about a goddess of chaos and whatnot seems out of the blue.  It sort of gives me the notion that this is a document put together by Discordians for Discordians, which I don't think is actually the intent.

  • 18 ) An Interview With The Queen

    Nice summary of Illuminatus!.

  • 19) The Death of Enlightenment

    Possibly entirely because this chapter offers its own ironic commentary, I like it.  However, that doesn't necessarily excuse it.  I think you could probably work Nietzsche in a little more (or, if you want to go high-brow, Voltaire).  This feels like the sort of segue a philosobiography offers in between making points, but there aren't strong points sandwiching it.

  • 20) Rough Guide to Freedom

    This is a little bit alienating what with all the references to Bad Guys, but it offers some useful advice for the culturejammer.  The fact that I don't think any brand-new would-be jammer has ever taken it to heart doesn't mean it can't keep being offered.  Some people get smart faster than others, and other people keep chasing poor ol' Maxwell forever.  (Of course, you can guess where my sympathies lie.)

    And it goes downhill from here.

  • 21) Life Without Fences

    Who are you preaching to?  I certainly don't buy a new car when the Johnsons do.  I don't own a car.  Not because I don't want to, but because I'm fuck-ass poor.  Who are you targeting here, middle-class suburbanites who, what, browse the web looking for philosophical commentary on their own lives?  Makes me think of army recruitment posters.  "A Demographic Of One."

    The entire chapter Misses The Point, although like all things that Miss The Point, it offers a lovely ironic commentary.  Go back to that cutesy picture in What The Hell Are You Reading and stare at it until your eyes fucking bleed.

  • 22) Key

    Okay, the first issue is that the table of contents link doesn't lead to Key, it leads to Life Without Fences.

    But that's secondary.

    Look, you know what I remember?  I remember Anonymous.  It's not hard to -- it wasn't that long ago.  If you don't remember Anonymous, don't worry too much... they were some people who said some stuff, had a couple rallies, then got bored and sat back down.

    The only good thing this chapter has to say is "find the others."  The rest of it is FNORD.  Yeah, the patriotic anthem is just as FNORD as the gun in your face.  Why is this here?  I really don't think the intent was we're supposed to come away from the BIP on a nice feel-good high.  If we were, why even bother putting the damn thing together?  People who feel happy with Where They Are don't do anything about it.
"OTOH, I shook up your head...I must be doing something right.What's wrong with schisms?  Malaclypse the younger DID say "Discordians need to DISORGANIZE."  If my babbling causes a few sparks, well hell...it beats having us backslide into our own little greyness." - The Good Reverend Roger

LMNO

This is fucking brillant.

I gotta say, this kid has NAILED it. I'm totally psyched that one of you fucks finally figured it out.

Arafelis

Thanks, LMNO!  And here I was, worried that you wouldn't like it.  I'm glad that insecurity was for nothing!

Hey, weren't you going to tell me about some kind of higher purpose you had?  I wouldn't want to miss out on anything.  After all, it's so hard to make friends here!  Everyone's so mean to me all the time!
"OTOH, I shook up your head...I must be doing something right.What's wrong with schisms?  Malaclypse the younger DID say "Discordians need to DISORGANIZE."  If my babbling causes a few sparks, well hell...it beats having us backslide into our own little greyness." - The Good Reverend Roger

fomenter

this is very interesting but what i would really like to know is what are your views on Cartesian duality?
"So she says to me, do you wanna be a BAD boy? And I say YEAH baby YEAH! Surf's up space ponies! I'm makin' gravy... Without the lumps. HAAA-ha-ha-ha!"


hmroogp

LMNO

Higher purpose? I don't follow. What are you getting at?

Thurnez Isa

Quote from: fomenter on June 07, 2009, 06:07:37 AM
this is very interesting but what i would really like to know is what are your views on Cartesian duality?

:lulz:
Through me the way to the city of woe, Through me the way to everlasting pain, Through me the way among the lost.
Justice moved my maker on high.
Divine power made me, Wisdom supreme, and Primal love.
Before me nothing was but things eternal, and eternal I endure.
Abandon all hope, you who enter here.

Dante

Arafelis

Quote from: fomenter on June 07, 2009, 06:07:37 AM
this is very interesting but what i would really like to know is what are your views on Cartesian duality?

Y'know, I did actually read the archives here.

So since I know exactly the meme you're referencing, I'm going to give you an honest answer to the question you're not asking!

Cartesian duality may actually be misnomer.  Descartes seperated the Mind and the Body, but he was never consistent in his treatment of the Spirit.  Sometimes it was part of the Mind, but other times he seemed to give it its own, separate status ontologically.  What would probably be more accurate is "Cartesian pluralism."

Of course, that's not really my view, it's just a synopsis.  See, I'm a pragmatist -- in the tradition of Dewey.  See, in Deweysian pragmatism, questions of substance ontology are viewed as kind of missing the point.  We're much more concerned with escaping mean ol' uncle Donald with our cousins, Hueysian epistemology and Louisian ethics.
"OTOH, I shook up your head...I must be doing something right.What's wrong with schisms?  Malaclypse the younger DID say "Discordians need to DISORGANIZE."  If my babbling causes a few sparks, well hell...it beats having us backslide into our own little greyness." - The Good Reverend Roger

LMNO

What did I tell you? This guy has ANSWERS!

fomenter

that one got a laugh from me..
"So she says to me, do you wanna be a BAD boy? And I say YEAH baby YEAH! Surf's up space ponies! I'm makin' gravy... Without the lumps. HAAA-ha-ha-ha!"


hmroogp

Thurnez Isa

Deweysian pragmatism: well I think we found new one
Through me the way to the city of woe, Through me the way to everlasting pain, Through me the way among the lost.
Justice moved my maker on high.
Divine power made me, Wisdom supreme, and Primal love.
Before me nothing was but things eternal, and eternal I endure.
Abandon all hope, you who enter here.

Dante

Arafelis

Quote from: fomenter on June 07, 2009, 06:18:28 AM
that one got a laugh from me..

Oh fucking thank you.  The place was starting to scare me.
"OTOH, I shook up your head...I must be doing something right.What's wrong with schisms?  Malaclypse the younger DID say "Discordians need to DISORGANIZE."  If my babbling causes a few sparks, well hell...it beats having us backslide into our own little greyness." - The Good Reverend Roger

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

Quote from: Nigel on June 07, 2009, 12:19:38 AM

If you want something done better, what do you think is more effective... telling people that they did it wrong, or doing it your own fucking self? Maybe outlining a project, announcing it, and trying to drum up some support?

Or do you prance in with "yer doin' it wrong, hurrrr" and expect people to take it as a serious critique? A critique of a past project that's no longer being worked on... what do you expect, people to rewrite it to your specifications?

Come on.


"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


Arafelis

Quote from: Nigel on June 07, 2009, 06:33:36 AM
Quote from: Nigel on June 07, 2009, 12:19:38 AM

what do you expect?


I was asked to write a critique on the BIP after I suggested that it might not be a truly Discordian piece and offered some reasons why.  I'm doing it, not because I think people are going to suddenly rewrite the project -- or, hell, even read my criticism, I mean, there's a pipe dream for you -- but to establish myself on the board.  I'm an arrogant bastard, but I'm not just hot air.
"OTOH, I shook up your head...I must be doing something right.What's wrong with schisms?  Malaclypse the younger DID say "Discordians need to DISORGANIZE."  If my babbling causes a few sparks, well hell...it beats having us backslide into our own little greyness." - The Good Reverend Roger

fomenter

Quote from: Arafelis on June 07, 2009, 06:28:30 AM
Quote from: fomenter on June 07, 2009, 06:18:28 AM
that one got a laugh from me..

Oh fucking thank you.  The place was starting to scare me.

if you have read the archives and you act like a really real discordian, and tell us how we are doing it wrong already knowing the the kind of response that gets, it smells of sociological experiments, and having read the archives i am sure you know how much we love those...

you have walked out on some thin ice, scared is a wise response to danger. don't sweat it some of the best posters here have gotten of to a  rough start if you are smart you can make it work for you..
"So she says to me, do you wanna be a BAD boy? And I say YEAH baby YEAH! Surf's up space ponies! I'm makin' gravy... Without the lumps. HAAA-ha-ha-ha!"


hmroogp