News:

Already planning a hunger strike against the inhumane draconian right winger/neoliberal gun bans. Gun control is also one of the worst forms of torture. Without guns/weapons its like merely existing and not living.

Main Menu

A critique of the BIP

Started by Arafelis, June 07, 2009, 05:41:13 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: TSosBR! on June 07, 2009, 06:25:12 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 07, 2009, 06:14:19 PM
Quote from: Arafelis on June 07, 2009, 06:59:33 AM
I'm an underemployed 20-something ex-philosophy student.

Explains everything.

Quote from: Nigel on June 07, 2009, 04:10:17 PM
Quote from: Arafelis on June 07, 2009, 06:59:33 AM
Quotedon't sweat it some of the best posters here have gotten of to a  rough start if you are smart you can make it work for you..

I knew I was in for a rocky start, but I needed to know where I was.  There's a lot you can't get from reading archives.

I'm an underemployed 20-something ex-philosophy student.  If I wasn't on a mission, I wouldn't be a stereotype.

:lulz: Explains everything.

aww you guys are so adorable.  you're like ickle hate-twins  :lulz:

Wonder Twin Powers....ACTIVATE! 

FORM OF A HATE FILLED OLD MAN!
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Requia ☣

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 07, 2009, 06:43:41 PM

Cain was a foreign relations student.  Not quite the same thing.

Also, you two didn't take any "special time" to sneer at everyone else on the site before stating your case.

Pretty sure he did philosophy too.  Or maybe that just comes down to his default level of knowledge being terrifyingly high.
Inflatable dolls are not recognized flotation devices.

Arafelis

Quote from: Requia on June 07, 2009, 06:19:59 PM
Countercritisisms:

1) This is actually my favorite part of the BIP.  For years i heard and accepted that *other* people were fucked up monkeys who can't see reality as it is.  This piece here is what finally forced me to accepted that *all* people are that way, including me.

I can't argue with that and I wouldn't want to try.  My objection to this part is that based on what I know, it is a part that will make many people want to put down the book.  That's a dealbreaker, ladies.

One thing that I would accept if someone can show me that Welcome To Prison (specifically) is a good complement to the PD -- that is, that people who put down the PD are exactly the sort of people who do not put down BIP, and vice versa.  I don't believe this to be the case, but I'm willing to be wrong.  I'd want to hear some more testimonials, at least, of people (who weren't involved in BIP)s' first experiences reading Welcome To Prison and/or the PD.

QuoteI also don't really see it as the same as Plato's cave.  The metaphors are similar, but the point is entirely different.  Plato was talking people seeing shadows, imitations, of these fancy ideal forms, to him a chair is really a shadow of some mystic ideal chair.  In the BIP that chair is a shadow of what people think a chair is, that the platonic forms exist solely inside our head.

Plato's cave never directly referenced his Realism, which is part of why the metaphor is so timeless.  Platonic Realism (or Platonic Idealism, they both mean the same thing, weirdly) hasn't survived the ages.  The way I've experienced a lot of people encountering Plato's Cave is pretty much exactly the way the BIP comes across to me.  "You're stuck somewhere that you don't realize you're stuck in for a long time, because that's all you know.  Then you experience something that makes you think there's more out there.  All the sudden, you realize just how stuck you are."  The cave metaphor goes on, of course, but it's that opener that sticks with people, and that's what the BIP seems to be pushing as well.

QuoteAlso: I point out that Cain and I are also underemployed 20 something ex philosophy students.

Awesome!  What's your mission?
"OTOH, I shook up your head...I must be doing something right.What's wrong with schisms?  Malaclypse the younger DID say "Discordians need to DISORGANIZE."  If my babbling causes a few sparks, well hell...it beats having us backslide into our own little greyness." - The Good Reverend Roger

Requia ☣

To stop being an underemployed ex philosophy student.
Inflatable dolls are not recognized flotation devices.

Requia ☣

Plato's Realism has survived, in roughly the same sense a zombie has.  The academics have rejected it to an extent, but it's ingrained into the way mosbunal people think.  I have a suspicion that this predates Plato, and the whole thing is based off of people not being able to tell the difference between an object and the filters the brain uses for object recognition.
Inflatable dolls are not recognized flotation devices.

Cain

Quote from: Requia on June 07, 2009, 06:53:06 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 07, 2009, 06:43:41 PM

Cain was a foreign relations student.  Not quite the same thing.

Also, you two didn't take any "special time" to sneer at everyone else on the site before stating your case.

Pretty sure he did philosophy too.  Or maybe that just comes down to his default level of knowledge being terrifyingly high.

I did philosophy in my first year, yes, and two years previous to that as well.  And touched on Political Philosophy in my third year, for my Ideologies class.

Though to be honest in that year I learnt nothing new from the previous two, hence why I junked it for Classical studies.

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

#36
Quote from: TSosBR! on June 07, 2009, 06:25:12 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 07, 2009, 06:14:19 PM
Quote from: Arafelis on June 07, 2009, 06:59:33 AM
I'm an underemployed 20-something ex-philosophy student.

Explains everything.

Quote from: Nigel on June 07, 2009, 04:10:17 PM
Quote from: Arafelis on June 07, 2009, 06:59:33 AM
Quotedon't sweat it some of the best posters here have gotten of to a  rough start if you are smart you can make it work for you..

I knew I was in for a rocky start, but I needed to know where I was.  There's a lot you can't get from reading archives.

I'm an underemployed 20-something ex-philosophy student.  If I wasn't on a mission, I wouldn't be a stereotype.

:lulz: Explains everything.

aww you guys are so adorable.  you're like ickle hate-twins  :lulz:

WONDER TWIN POWERS, ACTIVATE

SHAPE OF ICY BILE
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


Mesozoic Mister Nigel

Quote from: Requia on June 07, 2009, 07:54:22 PM
To stop being an underemployed ex philosophy student.

May I recommend... science?
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


Cain

Most terrorists studied science at University.

Therefore, it is a dangerous career choice.

Arafelis

Quote from: Nigel on June 07, 2009, 08:26:29 PM
Quote from: Requia on June 07, 2009, 07:54:22 PM
To stop being an underemployed ex philosophy student.

May I recommend... science?

I'm going to second this recommendation.  I think everyone interested in philosophy should be forced to take at least two years of math, one year of each major scientific discipline (or three in any single), and two years of computer science.  For their bachelor's.
"OTOH, I shook up your head...I must be doing something right.What's wrong with schisms?  Malaclypse the younger DID say "Discordians need to DISORGANIZE."  If my babbling causes a few sparks, well hell...it beats having us backslide into our own little greyness." - The Good Reverend Roger

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

Quote from: Cain on June 07, 2009, 08:27:11 PM
Most terrorists studied science at University.

Therefore, it is a dangerous career choice.

:lulz:
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


Requia ☣

I'm also an underemployed ex physics student, thats not working out any better.
Inflatable dolls are not recognized flotation devices.

Cain


Arafelis

So would we all have the Discordian prestige class?
"OTOH, I shook up your head...I must be doing something right.What's wrong with schisms?  Malaclypse the younger DID say "Discordians need to DISORGANIZE."  If my babbling causes a few sparks, well hell...it beats having us backslide into our own little greyness." - The Good Reverend Roger

Requia ☣

#44
Tempting actually, but I'm not taking on any new RPG design projects until i finish the d20 Modern rewrite.
Inflatable dolls are not recognized flotation devices.