Samsara

[LMNO]

Marx wasn't so bad, he just didn't understand human beings.  His philosophy would have worked great with robots.

[Cain]

Plus his philosophy has been successfully altered in certain areas and then reapplied (see: Frankfurt School for more).  Like most generally decent philosophers (Locke, Hume, Mill, Nietzsche etc), he had failings, and other people came along and corrected those failings and did something interesting with the ideas that were presented.

Rand only ever produced cultists and more cultists.  Hell, I rate Robert Nozick, Friedrich Hayek and Milton Friedman above her, as libertarian inclined thinkers.

[Cramulus]

I like the link between memetics and reincarnation. Both are systems of passing something forward through time like a relay race. But the soul lasts a lifetime, and information is instant. I'm intrigued by this notion that we're being reincarnated every day, through the actions of those around us.

We all here these voices of mentors past. When I get really angry, I hear myself channeling my dad's voice and it humbles and quiets me. Or when I start bullshitting about something, I can hear my college advisor, shaking his head and calling me out on it, as he loved to do when I got off on a tangent. 

The link between memetics and karma is an interesting one because it implies the notion of ascendence. As you move through the wheel of Karma, you're supposed to be trying to get into better and better forms, eventually transcending this material world, right? And as we move through the memosphere, we are constantly building on our old ideas. New logos are born every day. But is it progress? But is it art?

If I understand it, and I'm not sure I do, the buddhist hopes to transcend the wheel of karma one day. I don't think our ideas are moving towards the same kind of nirvana.



        file this piece under "Shrapnel", I think. (one of our vague, seldom coalesced, themes)

[Arafelis]

The link between memetics and karma is an interesting one because it implies the notion of ascendence. As you move through the wheel of Karma, you're supposed to be trying to get into better and better forms, eventually transcending this material world, right? And as we move through the memosphere, we are constantly building on our old ideas. New logos are born every day. But is it progress? But is it art?

If I understand it, and I'm not sure I do, the buddhist hopes to transcend the wheel of karma one day. I don't think our ideas are moving towards the same kind of nirvana.

One of my friends has a quote which he often repeats to the effect of, "Annihilation and transcendence both look the same from the outside."

When I was a bit younger, I absolutely loathed Buddhist thought.  I felt like it was the most horrific thing in the world to aspire to... well, annihilation.  I had a mental image (which if I had any skill I would have tried to capture) of a lobotomized Buddha, smiling happily because everything meaningful about life had been excised from his brain.

Gradually, the concept was introduced to me that this needn't be how it is seen -- that is, that in each stage of "being" or "development" or whatever, the next one is practically incomprehensible and the one following that absolutely so.  I'm still not much of a fan of Buddhism (as my piece illustrates), but I can acknowledge the idea that what's being sought might simply be so far removed from our current sphere of reference that it's impossible to call by any other name than 'transcendent.'

And I absolutely do think that the memetic structures, the ideas, of humanity slouch gradually in that direction.  I see the major "progressing" factor of history as technology... almost invariably, what completely revolutionizes our society is a technological development.  Agriculture, masonry, the blast furnace, powered engines, mass production; and also the social technologies.  Wealth-signifiers (coinage), psychology, etc.  We are slowly but seemingly inevitably progressing towards a point where we will be able to literally control our own evolution, and may even get to the point where we have to decide if we "are" our meat bodies and brains or our collection of experiences and outlooks.

It's terrifying.  It's quite probable that humanity as we know it will no longer exist after that point.  Nirvana or nihil?

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Closer to the second one.

"closer"?  Answer the fucking question.

[Arafelis]

"closer"?  Answer the fucking question.

One of the themes I wanted to present was the idea that it's very likely there has been and will be other people whose lives follow patterns extremely similar to my own (and that this is true for anyone).  To me, that's 'literal' enough.  But that wasn't one of the two choices presented, and I suspect by 'literal' Dr. James Semaj meant something more like 'in the psychospiritual sense of Hinduism or Buddhism.'

[Triple Zero]

"Annihilation and transcendence both look the same from the outside."

When I was a bit younger, I absolutely loathed Buddhist thought.  I felt like it was the most horrific thing in the world to aspire to... well, annihilation.  I had a mental image (which if I had any skill I would have tried to capture) of a lobotomized Buddha, smiling happily because everything meaningful about life had been excised from his brain.

You got that from Daniel Goleman's book on meditation? Cause if there's one book that describing meditation and the road to and state of enlightenment, that completely put me off doing meditation exercises, it was that one. Kind of for a similar reason as you describe. He described destruction of the ego and such in not very nice words, killing your gods and indeed annihilating the mind ... didnt seem like an idea one would strive for.

[The Wizard]

But that wasn't one of the two choices presented, and I suspect by 'literal' Dr. James Semaj meant something more like 'in the psychospiritual sense of Hinduism or Buddhism.'

Ya, that was what I meant.

[Aufenthatt]

"Annihilation and transcendence both look the same from the outside."

When I was a bit younger, I absolutely loathed Buddhist thought.  I felt like it was the most horrific thing in the world to aspire to... well, annihilation.  I had a mental image (which if I had any skill I would have tried to capture) of a lobotomized Buddha, smiling happily because everything meaningful about life had been excised from his brain.

You got that from Daniel Goleman's book on meditation? Cause if there's one book that describing meditation and the road to and state of enlightenment, that completely put me off doing meditation exercises, it was that one. Kind of for a similar reason as you describe. He described destruction of the ego and such in not very nice words, killing your gods and indeed annihilating the mind ... didnt seem like an idea one would strive for.

On the other hand, if you go to the opposite polar extream like the church of satan you end up nukeing your mind even more.

[Arafelis]

You got that from Daniel Goleman's book on meditation? Cause if there's one book that describing meditation and the road to and state of enlightenment, that completely put me off doing meditation exercises, it was that one. Kind of for a similar reason as you describe. He described destruction of the ego and such in not very nice words, killing your gods and indeed annihilating the mind ... didnt seem like an idea one would strive for.

I haven't read that... my education in Buddhism extended over most of my college career, in one way or another, and I have enough Buddhist friends that it continues on now.

I've found the approach to nirvanna varies pretty widely by tradition and by Buddhist.  So I've been kind of unwillingly dragged into a more nuanced view.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

You got that from Daniel Goleman's book on meditation? Cause if there's one book that describing meditation and the road to and state of enlightenment, that completely put me off doing meditation exercises, it was that one. Kind of for a similar reason as you describe. He described destruction of the ego and such in not very nice words, killing your gods and indeed annihilating the mind ... didnt seem like an idea one would strive for.

I haven't read that... my education in Buddhism extended over most of my college career, in one way or another, and I have enough Buddhist friends that it continues on now.

I've found the approach to nirvanna varies pretty widely by tradition and by Buddhist.  So I've been kind of unwillingly dragged into a more nuanced view.

I figured as much.  Look, kid, those Buddhists are no good.  Sure, the first shot of sartori is free, but before you know it, you're hooked and you're on your knees in some filthy bathroom, "launching" enough head to earn your next fix.  It's a tragic story that happens all too often.  Get out while you can, before you discover the hideous truth about those saffron robes.

[Cain]

"Annihilation and transcendence both look the same from the outside."

When I was a bit younger, I absolutely loathed Buddhist thought.  I felt like it was the most horrific thing in the world to aspire to... well, annihilation.  I had a mental image (which if I had any skill I would have tried to capture) of a lobotomized Buddha, smiling happily because everything meaningful about life had been excised from his brain.

You got that from Daniel Goleman's book on meditation? Cause if there's one book that describing meditation and the road to and state of enlightenment, that completely put me off doing meditation exercises, it was that one. Kind of for a similar reason as you describe. He described destruction of the ego and such in not very nice words, killing your gods and indeed annihilating the mind ... didnt seem like an idea one would strive for.

On the other hand, if you go to the opposite polar extream like the church of satan you end up nukeing your mind even more.

Goddamn.  That means we're left with Aristotle.

[Aufenthatt]

"Annihilation and transcendence both look the same from the outside."

When I was a bit younger, I absolutely loathed Buddhist thought.  I felt like it was the most horrific thing in the world to aspire to... well, annihilation.  I had a mental image (which if I had any skill I would have tried to capture) of a lobotomized Buddha, smiling happily because everything meaningful about life had been excised from his brain.

You got that from Daniel Goleman's book on meditation? Cause if there's one book that describing meditation and the road to and state of enlightenment, that completely put me off doing meditation exercises, it was that one. Kind of for a similar reason as you describe. He described destruction of the ego and such in not very nice words, killing your gods and indeed annihilating the mind ... didnt seem like an idea one would strive for.

On the other hand, if you go to the opposite polar extream like the church of satan you end up nukeing your mind even more.

Goddamn.  That means we're left with Aristotle.

[Thurnez Isa]

You got that from Daniel Goleman's book on meditation? Cause if there's one book that describing meditation and the road to and state of enlightenment, that completely put me off doing meditation exercises, it was that one. Kind of for a similar reason as you describe. He described destruction of the ego and such in not very nice words, killing your gods and indeed annihilating the mind ... didnt seem like an idea one would strive for.

I haven't read that... my education in Buddhism extended over most of my college career, in one way or another, and I have enough Buddhist friends that it continues on now.

I've found the approach to nirvanna varies pretty widely by tradition and by Buddhist.  So I've been kind of unwillingly dragged into a more nuanced view.

Buddhism?


God some people are just never fucking sastified

[Arafelis]

God some people are just never fucking sastified

I call a lot of them "Discordians."