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Role Playing Games Theory

Started by Telarus, June 16, 2009, 12:08:38 AM

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The Good Reverend Roger

What the FUCK?  RPG theory?

Look, all I want to do is get the refinery out of my head on the weekend by hacking shit up.  Just give me something with a CR that's like 3 too high for my dude, and a big honkin' sword, and that's all I fucking need.  THEORY, MY ASS!  I JUST WANT TO KILL SOMETHING WITH TENTACLES!
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Triple Zero

Roger, you open the door.

... THERE IS A HUGE MOTHERFUCKING MONSTER WITH DARK PURPLE TENTACLES AND YOU ARE RAGING AT +7 STRENGTH WHAT DO YOU DO YOU ARE HOLDING YOUR +2 SWEARING SWORD OF SEWAGE SAVAGERY AND IT GOES GODDAMNIT NOT ANOTHER FUCKING PURPLE MEGA SHITFUCK TENTACLE MONSTER DAMN FUCK POOP CHOLERA SPRAY HOSE LET ME FUCKING AT IT I WILL BLOODY SLASH ITS SHITTY SQUID SUCKERS INTO SYPHILIS SUSHI SLIME
Ex-Soviet Bloc Sexual Attack Swede of Tomorrow™
e-prime disclaimer: let it seem fairly unclear I understand the apparent subjectivity of the above statements. maybe.

INFORMATION SO POWERFUL, YOU ACTUALLY NEED LESS.

LMNO

Quote from: Triple Zero on June 23, 2009, 11:57:05 AM
Roger, you open the door.

... THERE IS A HUGE MOTHERFUCKING MONSTER WITH DARK PURPLE TENTACLES AND YOU ARE RAGING AT +7 STRENGTH WHAT DO YOU DO YOU ARE HOLDING YOUR +2 SWEARING SWORD OF SEWAGE SAVAGERY AND IT GOES GODDAMNIT NOT ANOTHER FUCKING PURPLE MEGA SHITFUCK TENTACLE MONSTER DAMN FUCK POOP CHOLERA SPRAY HOSE LET ME FUCKING AT IT I WILL BLOODY SLASH ITS SHITTY SQUID SUCKERS INTO SYPHILIS SUSHI SLIME




...now roll a silly looking pair of dice.

Requia ☣

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 23, 2009, 05:00:37 AM
What the FUCK?  RPG theory?

Look, all I want to do is get the refinery out of my head on the weekend by hacking shit up.  Just give me something with a CR that's like 3 too high for my dude, and a big honkin' sword, and that's all I fucking need.  THEORY, MY ASS!  I JUST WANT TO KILL SOMETHING WITH TENTACLES!

Theory is more for people like me who design the damned systems.
Inflatable dolls are not recognized flotation devices.

The Wizard

Yar. I'm working on a modern fantasy rpg. This could be useful...
Insanity we trust.

I'm starting to think that the best chance for running a game on this forum is using a system that allows for player authorship.
We'd probably be able to run a sweet Inspectres game, for example.

Telarus

Bump. Here's notes from an article I had to read for class:

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/4024/examining_game_pace_how_.php?page=2

    Examining Game Pace: How Single-Player Levels Tick
Bullet notes:

-=// Pacing: determining good from poor pacing \\=-

-=// 4 Fundamentals of Pacing \\=-
   * Movement Impetus -- the will of the player to move through the level.
    * Threat -- the notion of danger.
    * Tension -- the atmosphere and mood of the level or perceived danger which is reflected in the player.
    * Tempo -- the level of actual action currently being experienced by the player.
   
-= Movement Impetus =-
   There are many elements that increase impetus to move:
    * Introduce a threat from behind -- as long as the threat is significant it will cause the player to want to move away from it.
    * Present an objective ahead -- dangling the carrot is one of the most effective methods of encouraging movement. A clearly defined goal is vital in creating this urge to follow it.
    * Impose a time limit -- quite obviously the restriction of a time limit will encourage the player to not hang around. Too many imposed time limits can be extremely frustrating however.
    * Narrow physical options -- limiting the space in which to travel -- i.e. long corridors as opposed to open spaces, limits the amount of choice available to the player and in turn increases the speed at which they tend to move.
    * Draw the eye -- items of interest will pull the player towards them. Judicious use of these will help to pull the player through parts of the level. Bear in mind that once they reach the item of interest they are likely to pause at that point.
    * Architectural pressure -- specific forms of architecture promote movement. Walls that angle down, long corridors, junctions, etc all have psychological impact upon the player.
    * Snatch desired object -- taking away a desired object will often trigger the player into chasing after it.
    * NPC leads the way -- having a third party lead the player though the level will nearly always directly affect the movement impetus.

   
Provide Breaks! [This is about Pacing after all.]

Conversely there are also many elements that decrease impetus to move:

    * Wow moments -- stunning scenery, dramatic actions, impressive vistas or other elements that halt the player for a while.
    * Obstacle -- something blocking the progress ahead will decrease movement impetus and force the player to find a way around or a way to clear the blockage.
    * Altered movement -- a different movement method may require more thought, such as scaling walls via handholds.
    * Introducing a threat ahead -- a group of enemies ahead, a flaming pit or any other potential threat will slow the player whilst they plan to deal with it, then execute said plan.
    * Increased tension -- when tension is particularly high (usually through a high perceived threat and good atmosphere) then the player will often be fearful of moving quickly. Dead Space is a classic example of this -- many players tend to move slowly to ready themselves for sudden attacks.
    * Multiple Routes / Open World -- choice requires thought and thought slows movement impetus. Multiple routes and open world games offer a plethora of choice. Perhaps the ultimate example of slowed impetus is the moment when a player exits the sewer in Oblivion and sees the huge expanse of the world before them. It takes a moment or two just to take it all in.
    * NPC halts player -- just as an NPC can lead the player, they can also halt the player or slow them down.
    * Taking stock of inventory (collecting items) -- whenever a player encounters an item they are likely to slow down to investigate. Complex inventory systems will also require management that will slow movement impetus. Further still -- having collectible items in the first place will encourage exploration.
    * Dialog / Roleplay -- moments of dialog with NPCs or getting into the character will generally require more involvement from the player, and will thus slow movement impetus.
    * Story exposition -- generally the exposition of story will require the player's attention and will thus slow movement impetus.

    [Don't slow down too much or you will deprotagonize your players.]
    "A balance needs to be struck in providing a sense of movement and accomplishment and allowing the player time to themselves to explore, soak in the atmosphere or to take stock of their situation. "
   
-= Threat (Actual Danger) =-

   * The pace of the game can also be increased by the sense of peril that is experience by the player. The more threat the player believes they are under, the quicker their pulse, the more nervous and often more panicked them are.   Different threats produce different pacing behaviours.
   * Level of threat is detremined based on threat of external force, or threat of one's own mistakes. Threat from external force quickens pace/panic, internal threat allows one to gather one's thoughts or find a plan and gives a sense of retaining control.
   * Proximity of Threat matters. NEAR.                                 .....far

   * Adding time limit increases perceived danger. You have removed some of their control.
-= TENSION (Perceived Danger) =-

   * Occurs from the belief (gamble) in an unknown danger.   
   * Must be created in Context, an 'atmosphere' that you can get invested->immersed in.   
   * Can also be acheived through a lurking known threat.   
   * The Usual Tropes can get you investment ("buy-in"), such as the alien from Aliens (see TVTropes.org for more).   
   * Suddenly engaging in enemies at close proximity sharply ramps up Tension.
   
-= TEMPO =-

   * Tempo describes the level of intensity of action -- how much concentration is required by the player to achieve their goal.
   * Low tempo gameplay tends to be that which requires serious thought and contemplation -- generally puzzles.
   * High tempo gameplay is generally gameplay that requires fast reactions and split-second decisions. High tempo action often induces stress or panic and often at its highest level might be termed "frantic".
   * Sure fire Tempo game-changer are Time Limits, or 'Forced Pacing'.
   * Tempo in Movement ~
      Tempo when moving around the environment gets determined by the mechanics of the game and the environment itself.
      Explorative movement tends to be low tempo, as the player has time to look around and determine their own route.
      High Tempo feels acrobatic, and good Flow needs greater attention from environment and mechanics (Prince of Persia:Sands of Time).
   * Tempo in Puzzles
      Puzzles by their very nature tend to be low tempo -- the only real way to create a high tempo puzzle is to add a time pressure.
      Puzzles with Forced Pacing serve as a counterpoint to high paced action like combat.
   * Tempo in Combat
      Usually High Tempo, split second decision making, requires high levels of reaction. Tempo may change dramatically during a battle.
      General Skirmishes~ A general battle against a group of enemies in a game tends to follow a bell-curve pattern. The tempo of the battle builds to a certain tempo before it hits a turning point, where the more the player removes the incoming threat, the easier it becomes to take out the remaining threats.
      
      For example, a Left 4 Dead horde encounter follows this pattern -- the initial build up of enemies increased fairly rapidly up to a maximum number and a frantic tempo, before the player manages to destroy enough to turn the tide of the battle. At this point the lesser numbers make it easier to kill the remaining zombies and the tempo drops off.
      Boss Fights~ Boss fights tend to have much more of a crescendo feel -- they are generally eased into the first part of the fight, but as they start to chip away at its health it begins to attack with more and more ferocity, until the final phase where it is particularly dangerous. Of course once it is defeated the threat has been completely eliminated the tempo drops to pretty much nothing.
      
      
-= Structure of Pacing =-

   * Pacing as a waveform model - Moments of Actions interjected with periods of calm, peaks and troughs.
   * Linger in a trouh to long and boredom and tedium deprotegonize.
   * Linger on a peak too long can desensitize players to the action, repetitive and boring.
   * Incorporates the idea of 'varied repitition' found in music.
   * Elements of Music Theory to consider~
      **Rhythm -- in music rhythm is the timing of particular notes. In gameplay this could translate as the timing of events that determines game pace. See TEMPO ~ the feel of intensity that the player experiences from moment to moment.
      
         @Ways to alter Tempo (general music terms applied):
         ***Accelerando -- gradually increasing (accelerating) the tempo. This is very applicable to level pacing as it is often the case that the average tempo of the level increases towards the end.
         ***Ritardando -- gradually decreasing the tempo. This may not apply across a whole level, which generally will increase in tempo, but might occur after particularly fraught sections -- rather than simply drop the pace completely it may bring it down gradually.
         ***Precipitando -- going faster than previously. This would increase intensity of gameplay over the preceding section.
         ***Calando - going slower than previously. This would decrease intensity of gameplay over the preceding section.
         ***Stretto -- temporarily speeding up. This would be a change to bring up the intensity of the gameplay or raise the challenge for a short time.
         ***Ritenuto -- slightly slower than the previous tempo, holding back. This might be used in level pace to punctuate a battle with a smaller skirmish before returning to a larger battle thereafter.
         
       ** Melody -- describes notes in a successive series to create 'phrases of sound'. This could be comparable to a sequence of events in a level to create 'phrases of gameplay' -- something that might be termed Flow in game design.
          @Flow - the pattern of game mechanics that make up a sequence (terms for Melody include...)
          ***Monotone -- the repeated use of a single element.
          ***Ostinato -- a repeated phrase or game mechanic (separate to monotone in that it is punctuated with others).
          ***Ornaments -- elements that are used to embellish the principle element -- i.e. smaller game mechanics in a sequence that focuses on one particular mechanic as its main theme.
          ***Tremolo -- rapid alternation between mechanics.
          
       ** Harmony -- is the combination of notes of different pitches to create pleasing sounds, something that can easily be equated to combinations of game mechanics within a sequence to create a pleasing play experience. Disharmony exists anc can be used/avoided.
          
       ** Form -- the structure of a piece of music. Potentially this could be applied to the organization of gameplay events to form particular patterns over time. Includes
          ***Strophic form -- verse, chorus, verse [choruses tend to be louder, more impactful sections between quieter and more relaxed verses. This is very similar to the peaks and troughs ethos of many games' level pacing.]
          ***Rondo (to return) plays a different melody each verse, but returns to one main theme each time.
          ***Other structures are very much like mini narratives, such as Fugue or Invention, which tend to have exposition, then development and then finished with recapitulation.
          ***Variation has a main theme that is played slightly differently each time.
       
       ** Timbre -- the quality of the note. This is generally related to the type of instrument that creates it. This could be applied as the different types of mechanics used to produce the desired gameplay (or the different emotional content in the event). Polish the little events to improve the overall look/feel.
       
       ** Dynamics -- refers to the volume or sound of a note. This could translate to game design as the specifics of a particular piece of gameplay, such as the numbers of enemies used in a combat sequence or the height and length of jumps in a platforming sequence.
          ***Legato -- long and smooth flowing.
          ***Staccato - short and detached.
       
       ** Texture -- describes the 'amount that is going on' in a piece of music at any one time. In gameplay this can simply translate as how many different things are happening at any one time-slice. Ranges from comlpex to simple, rich to bland, among other descriptors.
          ***Monophony - single notes at a time, or in the case of gameplay, single mechanics used one at a time.
          ***Homophonic -- using harmonies, such as chords on a single melody. This would be the use of mechanics that work well together in defined patterns.
          ***Polyphonic -- multiple melodies playing at the same time. This would be extremely complex scenarios in terms of gameplay, where different gameplay elements are occurring in their own patterns. This would be fairly rare without being a complete mess.
          ***Heterophonic -- the same melody is being played with slight variations at the same time. This is more likely to be workable than a polyphonic scenario, as it would be more readable in terms of what is going on.
          
Balance Threat, Tension, Movement Impetus and Tempo to drive the pace forward.

Descript each Event with a rating in the above 4 stats. Frame the opening and closing of "Scenes" aggresively.

References

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_theory
Telarus, KSC,
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Cramulus

wow, cool post! Thanks Telarus, that was really interesting.

I'm reminded of a text on LARP dramaturgy which talks about using incentives to motivate players to move through a live narrative. Surprisingly, it has similar elements to single player level design...


here's an exerpt

The Fog of Larp
Unlike texts in linear media (the theater, the novel, the film) a larp is typically unpredictable. Some larps are planned "open-ended" or "player-driven", purposefully unpredictable, others risk seeing the carefully crafted plans of the larpwright failing utterly when played. Bøckman's maxim states that

Quote"is impossible to control the direction of a game as long as the plot-structure is hidden from the players, and that an action appearing the only logical step to an organizer don't necessarily do so for the players. (...) For any given problem, there are an infinite number of solutions, and as an organizer, you may take for granted that the players will think of those you did not."
(Bøckman, 2003) .

I call the unpredictability implied by this maxim for "the fog of larp", and the fact of it's existence can be attested to by any number of larpwrights and players.

Markus Montola's application of a chaotic behavior metaphor to larp (see Montola, 2004) sheds further light on the fog-of-larp. Chaotic systems are not random, i.e. not "pure chaos", but become unpredictable due to their qualities of non-linearity, recursivity and dynamism. Montola makes the convincing case that role-playing can be described as a chaotic system, and recommends that larpwrights view their activity not as authoring scripts but as establishing attractors. An attractor is "a dynamic pattern of behavior the chaotic system tries to follow". We can think of attractors as paths or roads leading through the fog of larp, which players may try to follow but from which they may also deviate or be forced to deviate. Montola's example is that of the race-car which attempts to stay on the racing track until it strays too far off-course and picks a new track leading into the forest. A web of incentives involving the election of the next Pope may be the focus – the attractor being followed - for the Cardinal characters of a larp, until suddenly the Visigoth characters decide to attack Rome and the cardinals jump onto the attractor called "defend the Vatican".

Integrative techniques make attractors stronger, bringing the larp closer to order and hence predictability, while dissipative techniques nudge the larp towards chaos and unpredictability. Integrative and dissipative techniques can be used by larpwrights and players both. For the larpwright to issue
Incentives as tools of larp dramaturgy clear instructions as to the purpose of the role-playing ("Elect a new pope!") is an integrative technique, for the player to ignore them ("fellow cardinals, enough in-fighting – let's get drunk instead!") is a dissipative one. The fog of larp gets thinner when integrative techniques are used, thicker with dissipative ones.

The chaos model is a useful tool for analysing larp dramaturgy, not just on a theoretical level but also in the practice of authoring larp. It forces us to think about which parts of the larp we can predict and which we can't, and on how the dramaturgy will actually affect the larp - as opposed to how good it looks on paper. Comparing the concept of "attractor" to the concept of a "plot" or "incentive web" helps us to see the difference between the structures visible to the larpwright and the structures that are followed by players.

Requia ☣

Dammit PD ate my post in this thread too  :argh!:


QuoteBoss Fights~ Boss fights tend to have much more of a crescendo feel -- they are generally eased into the first part of the fight, but as they start to chip away at its health it begins to attack with more and more ferocity, until the final phase where it is particularly dangerous. Of course once it is defeated the threat has been completely eliminated the tempo drops to pretty much nothing.

The crescendo feel to boss fights sounds right, thinking about the good boss fights I've faced, but bosses that get stronger as you supposedly weaken them are annoying as hell.  The buildup in danger should come from draining the resources of the player.
Inflatable dolls are not recognized flotation devices.

Telarus

Good reply, thanks Cram!

Req, I think the "it begins to attack with more and more ferocity, until the final phase where it is particularly dangerous" refers to things like in D&D4E the monsters (such as dragons) get one shot powers that they can only use after they've taken a certain amount of damage (or get 'shaken').
Telarus, KSC,
.__.  Keeper of the Contradictory Cephalopod, Zenarchist Swordsman,
(0o)  Tender to the Edible Zen Garden, Ratcheting Metallic Sex Doll of The End Times,
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Join the Doll Underground! Experience the Phantasmagorical Safari!

Requia ☣

This is video game RPGs, not P&P RPGs I thought?

But D&D 4E is trying to be a video game, so I guess that makes sense.
Inflatable dolls are not recognized flotation devices.

Telarus

Quote from: Requia ☣ on May 22, 2010, 11:01:24 PM
This is video game RPGs, not P&P RPGs I thought?

But D&D 4E is trying to be a video game, so I guess that makes sense.

Yeah basically. Think the later bosses from the Metroid series, that have 'forms' of increasing power level after you blow off the outer armor shell, etc, etc.
Telarus, KSC,
.__.  Keeper of the Contradictory Cephalopod, Zenarchist Swordsman,
(0o)  Tender to the Edible Zen Garden, Ratcheting Metallic Sex Doll of The End Times,
/||\   Episkopos of the Amorphous Dreams Cabal

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Cramulus

Quote from: Requia ☣ on May 22, 2010, 11:01:24 PM
But D&D 4E is trying to be a video game, so I guess that makes sense.

after decades of RPGs based on D&D, the D&D designers decided to take one or two cues from other popular styles of gaming

Cainad (dec.)

Quote from: Cramulus on May 23, 2010, 01:59:28 PM
Quote from: Requia ☣ on May 22, 2010, 11:01:24 PM
But D&D 4E is trying to be a video game, so I guess that makes sense.

after decades of RPGs based on D&D, the D&D designers decided to take one or two cues from other popular styles of gaming

:lulz:

Telarus

Bump. Can somebody throw this in the RPG Ghetto?

[Ooops, somebody already _has_ thrown this in the RPG ghetto. ahaha ]
Telarus, KSC,
.__.  Keeper of the Contradictory Cephalopod, Zenarchist Swordsman,
(0o)  Tender to the Edible Zen Garden, Ratcheting Metallic Sex Doll of The End Times,
/||\   Episkopos of the Amorphous Dreams Cabal

Join the Doll Underground! Experience the Phantasmagorical Safari!