Author Topic: IP Freely? There's a call for I.P. Freely?  (Read 20044 times)

The Good Reverend Roger

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Re: IP Freely? There's a call for I.P. Freely?
« Reply #45 on: September 14, 2009, 05:22:06 pm »
Problem:  If we decide that we don't want corporations to have the same patent rights as individuals, then we need to completely restructure our economy.  We as a nation are not capable of doing this, for reasons which should be obvious.

Also, the case in question will be struck down.  WOULD be struck down, I should say, because what's really going to happen is that Starbucks is going to lawyer the guy to death.  I think the judge that allowed the case to go forward should have his finances investigated.
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Cain

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Re: IP Freely? There's a call for I.P. Freely?
« Reply #46 on: September 14, 2009, 05:57:49 pm »
It won't happen, but it probably should.  I know a lot of economists are arguing right now for the big banks to be broken up, which I am sure will be entirely ignored.  Cases could be made for certain corporations, too. 

Machiavelli wouldn't put up with this shit, he'd advocate crushing the lot of them, because they've proven they can't be trusted and are too powerful.  Its an assesment I find appealing.

The Good Reverend Roger

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Re: IP Freely? There's a call for I.P. Freely?
« Reply #47 on: September 14, 2009, 06:02:12 pm »
It won't happen, but it probably should.  I know a lot of economists are arguing right now for the big banks to be broken up, which I am sure will be entirely ignored.  Cases could be made for certain corporations, too. 

Machiavelli wouldn't put up with this shit, he'd advocate crushing the lot of them, because they've proven they can't be trusted and are too powerful.  Its an assesment I find appealing.

Absolutely.  Problem is, who owns the congressmen that are charged with this sort of responsibility?
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Cain

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Re: IP Freely? There's a call for I.P. Freely?
« Reply #48 on: September 14, 2009, 06:04:18 pm »
Oh yeah.  I'm under no illusion as to the unlikeliness of action being taken, especially by the shower of piss that is currently in charge.

But more on that later.

The Good Reverend Roger

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Re: IP Freely? There's a call for I.P. Freely?
« Reply #49 on: September 14, 2009, 06:05:29 pm »
Oh yeah.  I'm under no illusion as to the unlikeliness of action being taken, especially by the shower of piss that is currently in charge.

But more on that later.

And it's not like they're going to face a revolt, given the high quality of television that they program us with.

" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

 "Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
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Cramulus

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Re: IP Freely? There's a call for I.P. Freely?
« Reply #50 on: September 14, 2009, 07:02:36 pm »
Problem:  If we decide that we don't want corporations to have the same patent rights as individuals, then we need to completely restructure our economy.  We as a nation are not capable of doing this, for reasons which should be obvious.

I know, it has a snowball's chance in hell. But it's something I feel really strongly about.

According to Kalle Lasn (and this is probably the strongest point he makes in Culture Jam), the root of the whole problem is Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad Company, the lawsuit in which "the U.S. Supreme Court decided that a private corporation is a person and entitled to the legal rights and protections the Constitutions affords to any person."1 Apparently a lot of judges and lawyers think this ruling was absurd, unprecedented, and needs to be tipped over.

The basic problem is this: corporations have the same rights as people, but far, far greater resources. This makes them more powerful than people in almost every way, putting human beings on the losing side of any conflict with this corporate fiction we have created.

Quote
Also, the case in question will be struck down.  WOULD be struck down, I should say, because what's really going to happen is that Starbucks is going to lawyer the guy to death.  I think the judge that allowed the case to go forward should have his finances investigated.

Now that precedent's been set, we'll see a lot more of these "Trademark Dilution" cases where companies get all territorial about the words they think they own. Getting away from the satire, here's another example of how this law is applied:

Quote from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trademark_dilution
For example, in the 1998 case of Panavision International v. Toeppen, defendant Toeppen registered the domain name www.panavision.com, and posted aerial views of the city of Pana, Illinois on the site. The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals found that trademark dilution occurred when potential customers of Panavision could not find its web site at panavision.com, and instead were forced to search through other (less obvious) domain names.

Interesting, right?


The Good Reverend Roger

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Re: IP Freely? There's a call for I.P. Freely?
« Reply #51 on: September 14, 2009, 08:29:57 pm »
Corporations also have less responsibility than an actual person.

They can't be drafted, for example.

They should not have the rights of a person.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

 "Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
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Telarus

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Re: IP Freely? There's a call for I.P. Freely?
« Reply #52 on: September 15, 2009, 05:58:01 am »
Problem:  If we decide that we don't want corporations to have the same patent rights as individuals, then we need to completely restructure our economy.  We as a nation are not capable of doing this, for reasons which should be obvious.

I know, it has a snowball's chance in hell. But it's something I feel really strongly about.

According to Kalle Lasn (and this is probably the strongest point he makes in Culture Jam), the root of the whole problem is Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad Company, the lawsuit in which "the U.S. Supreme Court decided that a private corporation is a person and entitled to the legal rights and protections the Constitutions affords to any person."1 Apparently a lot of judges and lawyers think this ruling was absurd, unprecedented, and needs to be tipped over.

The basic problem is this: corporations have the same rights as people, but far, far greater resources. This makes them more powerful than people in almost every way, putting human beings on the losing side of any conflict with this corporate fiction we have created.

Quote
Also, the case in question will be struck down.  WOULD be struck down, I should say, because what's really going to happen is that Starbucks is going to lawyer the guy to death.  I think the judge that allowed the case to go forward should have his finances investigated.

Now that precedent's been set, we'll see a lot more of these "Trademark Dilution" cases where companies get all territorial about the words they think they own. Getting away from the satire, here's another example of how this law is applied:

Quote from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trademark_dilution
For example, in the 1998 case of Panavision International v. Toeppen, defendant Toeppen registered the domain name www.panavision.com, and posted aerial views of the city of Pana, Illinois on the site. The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals found that trademark dilution occurred when potential customers of Panavision could not find its web site at panavision.com, and instead were forced to search through other (less obvious) domain names.

Interesting, right?

I'm familiar with Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad Company, Cram. And it turns out that the wording conferring rights to corporations is actually no where in the case record itself. The only place you're likely to find it is in the "Summary", written by a Court Reporter, J.C. Bancroft Davis, who at one point was the president of the Newburgh & New York Railroad Company.
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2469/how-can-a-corporation-be-legally-considered-a-person

Corporations also have less responsibility than an actual person.

They can't be drafted, for example.

They should not have the rights of a person.

Damn, I'd like to see these arguments actually come up in a court.
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Rococo Modem Basilisk

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Re: IP Freely? There's a call for I.P. Freely?
« Reply #53 on: September 15, 2009, 02:02:56 pm »
I would like to see corporations drafted, personally. I mean, they would make far more effective cannon fodder than individuals.


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Cramulus

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Re: IP Freely? There's a call for I.P. Freely?
« Reply #54 on: September 15, 2009, 02:32:20 pm »
I'm familiar with Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad Company, Cram. And it turns out that the wording conferring rights to corporations is actually no where in the case record itself. The only place you're likely to find it is in the "Summary", written by a Court Reporter, J.C. Bancroft Davis, who at one point was the president of the Newburgh & New York Railroad Company.
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2469/how-can-a-corporation-be-legally-considered-a-person

learn something new every day!



I wonder why Kalle Lasn doesn't know this?


Reginald Ret

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Re: IP Freely? There's a call for I.P. Freely?
« Reply #55 on: September 15, 2009, 02:56:08 pm »
I would like to see corporations drafted, personally. I mean, they would make far more effective cannon fodder than individuals.

seconded.
no clue how it would work, but it could be very interesting.
'none of the corporations will show up in person, making them all draftdodgers.
what is the punishment for draftdodging in wartime?
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Re: IP Freely? There's a call for I.P. Freely?
« Reply #56 on: September 15, 2009, 04:50:12 pm »
More scary: Imagine if the Catholic Church Westboro Church had copyrighted the figure of Jesus Christ.

Copyrighting religious and philosophical works in general confuses the hell out of me.  Basically, it's a way of getting legal muscle to force people to not apply your philosophies in different ways than you intended, amirite?  CoS copyrighting their stuff in order to control information about them and stop people from parodying them and all that.
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Cramulus

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Re: IP Freely? There's a call for I.P. Freely?
« Reply #57 on: September 16, 2009, 01:49:05 pm »
it looks like Colbert's reading the forum again!

Colbert Report
September 15, 2009

The Word - Let Freedom Ka-Ching
Corporations do everything people do except breathe, die and go to jail for dumping 1.3 million pounds of PCBs in the Hudson River.
http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/249055/september-15-2009/the-word---let-freedom-ka-ching

He talks about corporate personhood, then follows up with an interview with Jefferey Toobin to explain how the Santa Clara County ruling slipped in.

http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/249057/september-15-2009/citizens-united-v--federal-election-commission---jeffrey-toobin


good "chaos" quote later in the episode:
go to http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/249059/september-15-2009/christiane-amanpour at 4:20

Colbert: Do you ever wish Chaos would break out in a spa?
Amanpour: I do, I think that'd be really nice. It'd give me a chance to sit back, report on the chaos, and get a massage at the same time.
Colbert: Call me, I'll join you!



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Jenne

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Re: IP Freely? There's a call for I.P. Freely?
« Reply #58 on: September 16, 2009, 03:38:03 pm »
Ooh, good, I recorded that epi last night and will watch it today.

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Re: IP Freely? There's a call for I.P. Freely?
« Reply #59 on: September 16, 2009, 11:11:06 pm »
A flying hrosie picture too. Colbert is obviously a fan of the PD memes.


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