Sigil thread

[Captain Utopia]

What are they supposed to do? 

Generally a sigil is a graphic representation of a goal. So your goal might be "I am going to be self-employed within the year", you create a sigil (using whatever technique works for you) to represent or encode that goal. Then you put it away for awhile with all your other sigils. Since you made it, the theory claims... the image and the goal are tied together in your head... they are linked.

So later, when you 'charge' the sigil you are trying to embed the 'goal' deep into your subconscious where you hope it affects your BIP/Paths/Choices/Programming.

Charging the sigil basically involves focusing on the image (the goal) and then doing something that distracts your conscious thinking away from the goal.

Or at least that's the theory as held by most Chaos Magicians.

So let me know if I'm missing the point. But aren't there some very direct things you can do to achieve your goals, like, work towards them?

I don't want to come over all greyface, but if I were a bank manager and had two people seeing me who wanted financing towards starting their own business/becoming self employed.. I'm probably going to pick the person who has done a shitload of market research and has a solid business plan with realistic revenue projections, over the guy who shows up clenching a soggy doodle he has fapped over.

I mean, even if you make the commitment to dedicate say 15 minutes a day to working towards your goal.. won't that also embed itself into your consciousness? I guess as someone fighting against a lifetime habit of procrastination and slack, I don't have much sympathy for excuses and not just getting things done - and this description of sigils hits those warning bells for me.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Oh good, we're all just vehicles for Enki's self-hypnosis.

Doesn't it make you feel kinky?  

Well


no.

Oh...

Darn...

If that's your idea of kinky, well...

TGRR,
Crotchless wetsuit, air compressor, and 50# hose full of tartar sauce, ready to go.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

What are they supposed to do? 

Generally a sigil is a graphic representation of a goal. So your goal might be "I am going to be self-employed within the year", you create a sigil (using whatever technique works for you) to represent or encode that goal. Then you put it away for awhile with all your other sigils. Since you made it, the theory claims... the image and the goal are tied together in your head... they are linked.

So later, when you 'charge' the sigil you are trying to embed the 'goal' deep into your subconscious where you hope it affects your BIP/Paths/Choices/Programming.

Charging the sigil basically involves focusing on the image (the goal) and then doing something that distracts your conscious thinking away from the goal.

Or at least that's the theory as held by most Chaos Magicians.

So let me know if I'm missing the point. But aren't there some very direct things you can do to achieve your goals, like, work towards them?

I don't want to come over all greyface, but if I were a bank manager and had two people seeing me who wanted financing towards starting their own business/becoming self employed.. I'm probably going to pick the person who has done a shitload of market research and has a solid business plan with realistic revenue projections, over the guy who shows up clenching a soggy doodle he has fapped over.

I mean, even if you make the commitment to dedicate say 15 minutes a day to working towards your goal.. won't that also embed itself into your consciousness? I guess as someone fighting against a lifetime habit of procrastination and slack, I don't have much sympathy for excuses and not just getting things done - and this description of sigils hits those warning bells for me.

Beat me to it.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

What are they supposed to do? 

Generally a sigil is a graphic representation of a goal. So your goal might be "I am going to be self-employed within the year", you create a sigil (using whatever technique works for you) to represent or encode that goal. Then you put it away for awhile with all your other sigils. Since you made it, the theory claims... the image and the goal are tied together in your head... they are linked.

So later, when you 'charge' the sigil you are trying to embed the 'goal' deep into your subconscious where you hope it affects your BIP/Paths/Choices/Programming.

Charging the sigil basically involves focusing on the image (the goal) and then doing something that distracts your conscious thinking away from the goal.

Or at least that's the theory as held by most Chaos Magicians.

So let me know if I'm missing the point. But aren't there some very direct things you can do to achieve your goals, like, work towards them?

I don't want to come over all greyface, but if I were a bank manager and had two people seeing me who wanted financing towards starting their own business/becoming self employed.. I'm probably going to pick the person who has done a shitload of market research and has a solid business plan with realistic revenue projections, over the guy who shows up clenching a soggy doodle he has fapped over.

I mean, even if you make the commitment to dedicate say 15 minutes a day to working towards your goal.. won't that also embed itself into your consciousness? I guess as someone fighting against a lifetime habit of procrastination and slack, I don't have much sympathy for excuses and not just getting things done - and this description of sigils hits those warning bells for me.

Perfect.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Oh good, we're all just vehicles for Enki's self-hypnosis.

Doesn't it make you feel kinky?  

Well


no.

Oh...

Darn...

If that's your idea of kinky, well...

TGRR,
Crotchless wetsuit, air compressor, and 50# hose full of tartar sauce, ready to go.

srsly.

If it doesn't require a tarp, it's not kinky. IMO.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

What are they supposed to do? 

Generally a sigil is a graphic representation of a goal. So your goal might be "I am going to be self-employed within the year", you create a sigil (using whatever technique works for you) to represent or encode that goal. Then you put it away for awhile with all your other sigils. Since you made it, the theory claims... the image and the goal are tied together in your head... they are linked.

So later, when you 'charge' the sigil you are trying to embed the 'goal' deep into your subconscious where you hope it affects your BIP/Paths/Choices/Programming.

Charging the sigil basically involves focusing on the image (the goal) and then doing something that distracts your conscious thinking away from the goal.

Or at least that's the theory as held by most Chaos Magicians.

So let me know if I'm missing the point. But aren't there some very direct things you can do to achieve your goals, like, work towards them?

I don't want to come over all greyface, but if I were a bank manager and had two people seeing me who wanted financing towards starting their own business/becoming self employed.. I'm probably going to pick the person who has done a shitload of market research and has a solid business plan with realistic revenue projections, over the guy who shows up clenching a soggy doodle he has fapped over.

I mean, even if you make the commitment to dedicate say 15 minutes a day to working towards your goal.. won't that also embed itself into your consciousness? I guess as someone fighting against a lifetime habit of procrastination and slack, I don't have much sympathy for excuses and not just getting things done - and this description of sigils hits those warning bells for me.

The sigil/magic stuff is only a small part of your process. You still gotta work toward your goal.... the concept is that if you're consciously working toward that goal, subconsciously working toward the same goal is useful.

The most successful sigil magic I ever did was right after really getting into books by several different authors, Antero Alli, Bob Wilson, Peter Carroll, Phil Farber, Phil Hine...

After reading through their stuff I decided I would create a sigil that basically said "I will meet and talk with all of these authors".

About a month later, I was surfing the net and came across a site called maybelogic.net. Maybe Logic was selling online classes which were gonna be taught by Bob Wilson. So I paid up and took the class, I got to have online chats with RAW and thought WOW, that's pretty cool. Not long after that, MLA got hit by an attack and I volunteered to help the admin clean the mess up. The next thing I know, I'm the Technical guy for the site and I'm getting regular phone calls from EVERY SINGLE person in my list. In fact, I even get a mention in the back of Peter Carrolls new book "The Apophenion". Heck, at the point when I started helping out there, half those people weren't instructors and I didn't help decide on courses or anything.

Now, the sigil alone wouldn't have helped me... not without my choice to act when I had the chance. It may be that the sigil had absolutely NOTHING to do with my later experiences... or it may have been the extra nudge that helped me decided to offer my services to the site.

Sigils alone don't effect physical reality, though it may be that they can help with some programming (I am going to be less judgmental / I am going to be more assertive).

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

A sigil is kind of just a roundabout way of writing a list of goals. I personally prefer writing a list of goals and then leaving it on my altar with candles and incense, rereading it a few days later and then burning it. I find the process aesthetically pleasing. No difference really, though. I just find the foisting of the fucking sigils onto others completely irritating. They are, after all, meaningless to anyone but the maker. It's attention-whoring fappery.

[Kai]

What are they supposed to do? 

Generally a sigil is a graphic representation of a goal. So your goal might be "I am going to be self-employed within the year", you create a sigil (using whatever technique works for you) to represent or encode that goal. Then you put it away for awhile with all your other sigils. Since you made it, the theory claims... the image and the goal are tied together in your head... they are linked.

So later, when you 'charge' the sigil you are trying to embed the 'goal' deep into your subconscious where you hope it affects your BIP/Paths/Choices/Programming.

Charging the sigil basically involves focusing on the image (the goal) and then doing something that distracts your conscious thinking away from the goal.

Or at least that's the theory as held by most Chaos Magicians.

So...wouldn't it be easier to actually just /do something/, GTS style even? It's kinda like planning, or meetings, or any of that shit. Usually what needs to happen is taking the first step, ie, actually getting off one's ass and doing something.

Never mind, SEVERAL people beat me to it.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

A sigil is kind of just a roundabout way of writing a list of goals. I personally prefer writing a list of goals and then leaving it on my altar with candles and incense, rereading it a few days later and then burning it. I find the process aesthetically pleasing. No difference really, though. I just find the foisting of the fucking sigils onto others completely irritating. They are, after all, meaningless to anyone but the maker. It's attention-whoring fappery.

I don't even plan that much.  I just do shit.  Most of the time it falls over, blows up, and sinks into the swamp.

Good times.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

A sigil is kind of just a roundabout way of writing a list of goals. I personally prefer writing a list of goals and then leaving it on my altar with candles and incense, rereading it a few days later and then burning it. I find the process aesthetically pleasing. No difference really, though. I just find the foisting of the fucking sigils onto others completely irritating. They are, after all, meaningless to anyone but the maker. It's attention-whoring fappery.

Your list or a sigil both fit the formula as the "magical link" the sigil obfuscates the intent to trick your subconscious with some sleight of mind, the list is a bit more direct... but yeah, its pretty much the same thing.

Sometimes sigils can be interesting, but usually with a context... Sigils are often very symbolic and sometimes its cool to see how people create visual symbols to tie to a concept, however it can also be nothing more than fappery.

So...wouldn't it be easier to actually just /do something/, GTS style even? It's kinda like planning, or meetings, or any of that shit. Usually what needs to happen is taking the first step, ie, actually getting off one's ass and doing something.

Doing Something is absolutely necessary. IF someone performs a kind of ritual, be it meditation, sigils, invocation (modifying one's own personality) or praying to whatever deity you wish for help/protection AS you go DO something... then I don't see an issue with that. Sometimes, maybe the first step is a little easier if its couched in symbols and rituals... sometimes, even if you KNOW what you want, or KNOW what you need to do, it may be hard to do it.

After all, we could say that all religions are bunk and we should simply accept the universe and not talk of Emergence as a force. But, sometimes there is value in something that may not be utilitarian. We could eschew all books like Angel Tech, because we can survive without them. But, for some people, maybe that map is helpful.

Getting off our ass and doing something might have 'Magic' as one of the steps, but its not the only one or the most important one. You might say it is like taking some time to hang a motivational poster up in our Prison Cell, before/while we set to work remodeling it...

[Kai]

So...wouldn't it be easier to actually just /do something/, GTS style even? It's kinda like planning, or meetings, or any of that shit. Usually what needs to happen is taking the first step, ie, actually getting off one's ass and doing something.

Doing Something is absolutely necessary. IF someone performs a kind of ritual, be it meditation, sigils, invocation (modifying one's own personality) or praying to whatever deity you wish for help/protection AS you go DO something... then I don't see an issue with that. Sometimes, maybe the first step is a little easier if its couched in symbols and rituals... sometimes, even if you KNOW what you want, or KNOW what you need to do, it may be hard to do it.

After all, we could say that all religions are bunk and we should simply accept the universe and not talk of Emergence as a force. But, sometimes there is value in something that may not be utilitarian. We could eschew all books like Angel Tech, because we can survive without them. But, for some people, maybe that map is helpful.

Getting off our ass and doing something might have 'Magic' as one of the steps, but its not the only one or the most important one. You might say it is like taking some time to hang a motivational poster up in our Prison Cell, before/while we set to work remodeling it...

I didn't suggest that psychosomatic work is bunk. I suggested that often times "doing ritual" is procrastination.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

So...wouldn't it be easier to actually just /do something/, GTS style even? It's kinda like planning, or meetings, or any of that shit. Usually what needs to happen is taking the first step, ie, actually getting off one's ass and doing something.

Doing Something is absolutely necessary. IF someone performs a kind of ritual, be it meditation, sigils, invocation (modifying one's own personality) or praying to whatever deity you wish for help/protection AS you go DO something... then I don't see an issue with that. Sometimes, maybe the first step is a little easier if its couched in symbols and rituals... sometimes, even if you KNOW what you want, or KNOW what you need to do, it may be hard to do it.

After all, we could say that all religions are bunk and we should simply accept the universe and not talk of Emergence as a force. But, sometimes there is value in something that may not be utilitarian. We could eschew all books like Angel Tech, because we can survive without them. But, for some people, maybe that map is helpful.

Getting off our ass and doing something might have 'Magic' as one of the steps, but its not the only one or the most important one. You might say it is like taking some time to hang a motivational poster up in our Prison Cell, before/while we set to work remodeling it...

I didn't suggest that psychosomatic work is bunk. I suggested that often times "doing ritual" is procrastination.

Very much so.

I think magic is much like fifth circuit bliss that we're discussing in the Angel Tech thread.... for people that aren't connected it becomes an escape, either they do rituals and magic ALL THE FUCKING TIME and never actually do real life stuff to accomplish their goals... or they are simply procrastinators that use ritual as their 'See I did something' token.

Peter Carroll addressed that with a Maxim: Never give a sword to a man that can't dance, never give a wand to a man that cannot deal with reality"

Crowley talks alot about Will being tied to Action. He claimed that magic was any "ACT" of Will... but action is entirely necessary.

[Rococo Modem Basilisk]

I am totally alright with using it for procrastination. Usually when I procrastinate, I tend to reorganize my bookshelf by some arbitrary criterion. It takes a whole weekend.

[Cramulus]

Grant Morrison talks a lot about sigils in The Invisibles. After reading through it, you've got a pretty good idea of how they work. I included a sigil in the distribution, a file called "heres one.jpg"

I distributed the Invisibles to a lot of people. I always passed on the instructions that if they liked it, they should burn the cd, upload it to the internet, send it to as many others as possible.  So I'm pretty sure people have "charged" thing.







And if it works, they'll have terrible gas.

[Cramulus]

unrelated:


everybody fap to this, I FUCKING DARE YOU