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Is it just me or is distaste for Libertarianism contradictory to discordianism?

Started by navkat, July 01, 2009, 02:01:59 PM

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BabylonHoruv

#150
July 03, 2009, 03:27:25 PM
Quote from: Requia on July 03, 2009, 06:20:27 AM
Quote
Does this mean that Government has the authority to treat usage-blocks of other services as commodities and allocate/tax/ration them in addition to their organic usage-costs? What about internet use? What about waste volume? Radio/television airwave usage? Can they add a tax for new home-builders based on the amount of healthy vegetation that's removed from the planet for driveways and structure area? I mean, if we can be talked into this, how long and how much passage of time until we can be persuaded into granting the Federal Government domain over and authority to restrict/monitor all the minutiae of our lives?


lesse here:

Internet usage they don't tax, but they passed a bill stating they have the right to do so.  Radio and TV is heavily taxed on the broadcaster side for over the air, and on the user side for cable/satellite.  The Satellite's are taxed for airwave usage as well.  Phone's are taxed so heavily that the tax is twice the expense of a phone line for me.  The city charges homeowners here according to the amount of garbage they need to dump (with discounts if you separate out your recyclables), homebuilders would have to pay the same tax (if lower since a builder would probably haul the crap to the dump themselves).

I think its too late to worry about what they might do later.

Personally I think fees for garbage based on volume are a good approach.  The dump's costs are based on volume, why shouldn't the customer's costs also be?
You're a special case, Babylon.  You are offensive even when you don't post.

Merely by being alive, you make everyone just a little more miserable

-Dok Howl

Thurnez Isa

#151
July 03, 2009, 06:50:52 PM
you guys know that the technology to create energy from garbage by reacting raw materials to steam and water to produce a synthesis gas is just around the corner - and in many large metropolitan areas already here.
Process is actually kind of interesting... an exited state of decomposition produces a char, which reacts with steam to produce carbon monoxide and hydrogen, or C + H2O - H2 + CO
it reaches equilibrium, balancing carbon monoxide and steam with carbon dioxide and hydrogen
You add in a little bit of oxygen into the mix and the oxygen will burn, hence energy

So the process is sound.. there is two major problems. 1) it's still inefficient and 2) you have to shut down your reactor twice a year to clean it

but anyways the point is garbage is not as dire of a problem as the hippie lobby (especially here in Ontario, Im sure in the States they are bad too) make it out to be

If you want to come up with sound garbage policy a simple thing to do is not punish families for garbage but to just sit down some of the major fast food companies in what ever country and simple ask, "Is there way
Through me the way to the city of woe, Through me the way to everlasting pain, Through me the way among the lost.
Justice moved my maker on high.
Divine power made me, Wisdom supreme, and Primal love.
Before me nothing was but things eternal, and eternal I endure.
Abandon all hope, you who enter here.
Dante

The Good Reverend Roger

#152
July 03, 2009, 07:18:23 PM
I hate Libertarians because they're stupid.  In fact, politics is the stupidest form of primate behavior, and anarchy (which is what most "libertarians" think libertarianism was supposed to be) is the stupidest form of politics, the proof of which can be demonstrated by pointing out that it was invented by the French.

What libertarians fail to realize is that a non-regulated market isn't a "free market", it's a recipe for monopoly and domination by corporate powers (and to any dumbasses that think a corporation by definition cannot take away your liberty, I will simply point out the East India Company).  In fact, a "free market" is an impossibility.  Anyone who WANTS people like Halliburton to have MORE power is a dupe, and should probably refrain from having offspring.



" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Thurnez Isa

#153
July 03, 2009, 07:27:19 PM
1) no "steam and water" eat in involved, but the burning is oxygen is added to the mix... without oxygen there is no burning
2) garbage is already separated by most landfills and deposited in different areas due to environmental concerns about contamination of ground water... most televisions do actually contain huge amounts of carbon due to them being made of plastic, though I am unaware if they are, or can be used in a gasification process... like I said the technology is there but not "there", at least in it be efficient enough.. but in a country like the US, which doesn't have enough water to produce enough hydro cheap, cleaner then coal, forms of energy unless they are willing and have the resources to invest in more nuclear plants
Through me the way to the city of woe, Through me the way to everlasting pain, Through me the way among the lost.
Justice moved my maker on high.
Divine power made me, Wisdom supreme, and Primal love.
Before me nothing was but things eternal, and eternal I endure.
Abandon all hope, you who enter here.
Dante

The Good Reverend Roger

#154
July 03, 2009, 07:29:05 PM
Sorry, I hadn't realized the topic had terminally drifted. 
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Thurnez Isa

#155
July 03, 2009, 07:30:20 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on July 03, 2009, 07:29:05 PM
Sorry, I hadn't realized the topic had terminally drifted. 

you could always keep arguing with the libertarians till you get bored and stop and they feel they "won"
Through me the way to the city of woe, Through me the way to everlasting pain, Through me the way among the lost.
Justice moved my maker on high.
Divine power made me, Wisdom supreme, and Primal love.
Before me nothing was but things eternal, and eternal I endure.
Abandon all hope, you who enter here.
Dante

The Good Reverend Roger

#156
July 03, 2009, 07:31:14 PM
Quote from: Thurnez Isa on July 03, 2009, 07:30:20 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on July 03, 2009, 07:29:05 PM
Sorry, I hadn't realized the topic had terminally drifted. 

you could always keep arguing with the libertarians till you get bored and stop and they feel they "won"

Um, yeah, whatever.  I'm just pissed off that I wasted a few minutes bothering with a response.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Thurnez Isa

#157
July 03, 2009, 07:32:38 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on July 03, 2009, 07:31:14 PM
Quote from: Thurnez Isa on July 03, 2009, 07:30:20 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on July 03, 2009, 07:29:05 PM
Sorry, I hadn't realized the topic had terminally drifted. 

you could always keep arguing with the libertarians till you get bored and stop and they feel they "won"

Um, yeah, whatever.  I'm just pissed off that I wasted a few minutes bothering with a response.

sorry about the thread jack then

im sure it will get back on topic
Through me the way to the city of woe, Through me the way to everlasting pain, Through me the way among the lost.
Justice moved my maker on high.
Divine power made me, Wisdom supreme, and Primal love.
Before me nothing was but things eternal, and eternal I endure.
Abandon all hope, you who enter here.
Dante

The Good Reverend Roger

#158
July 03, 2009, 07:38:25 PM
Quote from: Thurnez Isa on July 03, 2009, 07:32:38 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on July 03, 2009, 07:31:14 PM
Quote from: Thurnez Isa on July 03, 2009, 07:30:20 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on July 03, 2009, 07:29:05 PM
Sorry, I hadn't realized the topic had terminally drifted. 

you could always keep arguing with the libertarians till you get bored and stop and they feel they "won"

Um, yeah, whatever.  I'm just pissed off that I wasted a few minutes bothering with a response.

sorry about the thread jack then

im sure it will get back on topic


Who cares?  I'm done with it.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Roaring Biscuit!

#159
July 03, 2009, 07:38:37 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on July 03, 2009, 07:31:14 PM
Quote from: Thurnez Isa on July 03, 2009, 07:30:20 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on July 03, 2009, 07:29:05 PM
Sorry, I hadn't realized the topic had terminally drifted. 

you could always keep arguing with the libertarians till you get bored and stop and they feel they "won"

Um, yeah, whatever.  I'm just pissed off that I wasted a few minutes bothering with a response.

just 'cause it was relevant to the "current" discussion in the thread doesn't mean it wasn't interesting.

As an aside, is it wrong to spout anarchist propoganda so i can get laughs from angry people?

Iason Ouabache

#160
July 03, 2009, 07:55:31 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on July 03, 2009, 07:18:23 PM
I hate Libertarians because they're stupid.  In fact, politics is the stupidest form of primate behavior, and anarchy (which is what most "libertarians" think libertarianism was supposed to be) is the stupidest form of politics, the proof of which can be demonstrated by pointing out that it was invented by the French.

What libertarians fail to realize is that a non-regulated market isn't a "free market", it's a recipe for monopoly and domination by corporate powers (and to any dumbasses that think a corporation by definition cannot take away your liberty, I will simply point out the East India Company).  In fact, a "free market" is an impossibility.  Anyone who WANTS people like Halliburton to have MORE power is a dupe, and should probably refrain from having offspring.
:mittens:  Libertarianism is just replacing policitician with CEOs. At least with the current system you can pretend to vote for the guys who hold the keys to your cage.
You cannot fathom the immensity of the fuck i do not give.
    \
┌( ಠ_ಠ)┘┌( ಠ_ಠ)┘┌( ಠ_ಠ)┘┌( ಠ_ಠ)┘

Cain

#161
July 03, 2009, 07:57:27 PM
Correction: At least under the current system you wont get mugged by Cain because welfare benefits were abolished, due to taxation being theft or something.

Because believe me, I would.

Thurnez Isa

#162
July 03, 2009, 09:55:04 PM
Right now the appeal of Libertarianism seems a very selfish one to me (yes I know selfishness is almost a virtue in free market libertarianism and my opinion is not set right now) but it seems to me very much a "why should I have to pay taxes for other people" kind of argument

Simple, we live in a society that is made up of many individuals and the interactions between these individuals keep the society together.
The question probably shouldn't be how can we create a society where I can personally gain as how can we make a society that is both helpful and fair, and at the same time contains the most personal freedoms for those within it?

Some libertarian ideas maybe very good in creating a society, but adopting pretty much any political philosophy wholly historically only benefits those in which the philosophy targets as an audience, so it is nether fair not helpful. And there are a whole whack of individuals within the society in which libertarianism does not address realistically.
Through me the way to the city of woe, Through me the way to everlasting pain, Through me the way among the lost.
Justice moved my maker on high.
Divine power made me, Wisdom supreme, and Primal love.
Before me nothing was but things eternal, and eternal I endure.
Abandon all hope, you who enter here.
Dante

navkat

#163
July 03, 2009, 11:18:02 PM
Extreme Libertarianism is just retarded for all the reasons TGRR described. It basically means the first ape to get ahold of the heavy sharp rock that can break skulls on the beach wins forever and ever and ever until he dies and picks the next ape to give the rock to.

I don't believe in a completely unregulated market because there are some things we can ALL agree on: like not letting companies who are cutting corners/costs package food that might have accidentally gone bad before they cooked it. No, that's not a reasonable buyer beware/seller reputation thing. It's pretty absolute accross the board.

I also don't have a problem giving poor people free shit so they can get on their feet. I DO have a problem making a policy saying ALL people are REQUIRED to take the free shit and the people who don't want it are precisely the one who are required to pay for it later. I'd rather just pay for the people who NEED the free shit and leave me out of it please.

The Good Reverend Roger

#164
July 04, 2009, 06:47:40 PM
Quote from: Thurnez Isa on July 03, 2009, 09:55:04 PM
Right now the appeal of Libertarianism seems a very selfish one to me (yes I know selfishness is almost a virtue in free market libertarianism and my opinion is not set right now)

And that is precisely why Libertarianism is as intellectually bankrupt as communism.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.
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