This sort of shit happens ALL THE TIME in the UK

[Cain]

Actually, you know what?  Fuck this noise.  In the past week I've been accused of being an elitist asshole, the next Wade, a spoiled brat and now, apparently, I'm a covert racist too.

Why the fuck I ever bother contributing anything is beginning to escape me.

[MMIX]

Actually, you know what?  Fuck this noise.  In the past week I've been accused of being an elitist asshole, the next Wade, a spoiled brat and now, apparently, I'm a covert racist too.

Why the fuck I ever bother contributing anything is beginning to escape me.

never happened - I didn't say it - I didn't imply it - and I have no reason to suspect it

[MMIX]

1.  The article was written in 2004.

Granted but the Chief Rabbi's piece was written last month. Your original reply suggested that jews "crying wolf" were harming their own cause - to which my reply would have been another hoary old meme " no smoke without fire" and I would genuinely like your take on his article.

2.  The article was written for Frontpage, a magazine devoted to 'fighting the war of ideas' in the War on Terror. ie by coming up with conspiracy theories about Muslims taking over the world and how its perfectly alright to shoot Palestianians because they all grow up to be terrorists anyway.  Its editor is David Horowitz, who has been accused by the SPLC of trying to make bigoted and discredit ideas respectable and by consorting with white supremacists in the USA (not to mention taking their money).  In fact, a list of writers for Standpoint magazine includes several notable Neocons, such as Charles Krauthammer, but also several paranoid conspiracy theorists of the far-right, including Bat Ye'or, Fjordman (who supports the fascist Vlaams Belang and equally odious Swedish Democrats) and Ann Coulter.

ok

3.  The incidents that are described are so patently false as to be laughable.  Not only that, they also fall into the standard American Right trope of anti-Semtic, anti-American Europeans, which was highly prevalent just after the Iraq War and Bush's re-election.  Note the repititions of the "dinner table" and "parties" (it is an oft repeated myth among conservative circles that champagne socialists and lefties throw parties purely to chat shit about evil Jooos all night long).

That doesn't mean there isn't an undercurrent of anti-semitism /  anti-Americanism in Europe in general and GB in particular, and I assume that is not what you are meaning to imply

4.  Not only are false accusations harmful in and of themselves, they obscure the real threat to Americans and Jews in the UK - the one coming from extremist Muslims and the far right.  The latter in particular being ignored by the media at large, as seen most recently by the press giving a free ride to Nick Griffin whenever he is interviewed (just see how often his holocaust denial, or fantastically anti-Semitic book, comes up in articles about him).  Of course, that never comes up, because its easier to pin statements on nameless and likely fictitious individuals, and because it doesn't fit the agenda (see below).

I get what you are saying but wouldn't you agree that the whole "don't ask don't tell" Griffin whitewash also supports my argument that there is a sufficient swell of anti-semitism to cause concern

5.  If you read between the lines, Gough's real agenda become obvious.  Namely, that Brits who are insufficiently enthused with the war on terror, Bush and Sharon are secretly frothing racists.  She misrepresents Faisal Bodi (whose article is actually pretty reasonable and has devoted time and money to interfaith dialogue), and goes off on her own hate-filled tirades about Europe being filled with anti-semites and latent Holocausters in the making, which some might consider undermine her supposed point about hatred of people based on nationality or ethnicity.  She also seems to think that America, and Israel, never did anything wrong before Bush Jr coming to power, which is an amusingly wrong notion.

I am not an apologist for Gough's fruitloopery and tbh find [some of ] her views abhorrent but I would question what you suspect her actual agenda is since you don't actually unpack it here. Brits who don't support the war on terror wholeheartedly being the anti-semitic  running dogs of Islam is a weird idea but it isn't an agenda. What do you see as the purpose of this drivel is it just preaching to the choir and how, if at all is it related to less florid and, therefore, to my mind, more disturbing articles like the Sir Jonathan Sacks one . . .

6.  I actually spent 4 years hanging around with Americans, Jewish and otherwise in a decent-sized town with a very mixed population, including many Europeans, Muslims and some Palestinians.  Not once did anything like that ever occur.  Carol Gould would have us believe the UK is on the tip of a seething frenzy of anti-Semitic hatred.  I've walked around London, Manchester and Edinburgh frequently with obviously American and obviously Jewish friends without anyone saying a word. Amazing.

Yes I went to Uni too and I totally concur based on my personal experience

7. STFU with your implications I don't give a shit about racism when its against Jews, or that I'm anti-semitic.  I spent months bleeding over research about far-right terrorism in Europe and America, precisely because racist incidents concern me so much.  Articles like this do nothing except throw about accusations for short term political benefit, and actually worsen the situation.  Bullshit, pity-me sob-stories piss me off, when I spent weeks going through databases to catalogue possible incidents of rightwing terrorism to present an accurate picture of the problem.

I made no such implication. You are an interesting and obviously complex individual and I suspect your demons are legion but I have NEVER suspected that racism including anti-semitism was part of the package. I genuinely hope you answer re. the Sacks piece


etr any indication that I may share or condone any views contained in the original article

[Thurnez Isa]

using the quote feature is hard

[Thurnez Isa]

Actually, you know what?  Fuck this noise.  In the past week I've been accused of being an elitist asshole, the next Wade, a spoiled brat and now, apparently, I'm a covert racist too.

Why the fuck I ever bother contributing anything is beginning to escape me.

I wouldn't worry Cain

MMIX doesn't actually read what he's commenting on

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Granted but the Chief Rabbi's piece was written last month. Your original reply suggested that jews "crying wolf" were harming their own cause - to which my reply would have been another hoary old meme " no smoke without fire" and I would genuinely like your take on his article.

Wow... I can't even figure out how you came to that conclusion, unless you jumped to it without even reading the article. The more you go on defending it, the more incredibly foolish you look.

I'm not necessarily the sharpest knife in the block, but after reading the article I was 100% crystal clear on what Cain's response to it meant.

[Template]

Actually, you know what?  Fuck this noise.  In the past week I've been accused of being an elitist asshole, the next Wade, a spoiled brat and now, apparently, I'm a covert racist too.

Why the fuck I ever bother contributing anything is beginning to escape me.

I'd like to see a link to that accusation.  The prospect horrifies me so.

Don't give up!  We're far from being mired in idiocy, unlike far too many active fora.


2009:  I'm going to go out on a limb and say that what antisemitism exists (fair to say, it exists) is more a symptom or warning sign of other political bullshit than a cause for action on its own.  Fighting it directly is like using a bandaid.  Nonetheless, it makes for good ammunition against the bigoted fucks.

[MMIX]

using the quote feature is hard

is there a biting your own tongue icon around here?

[MMIX]

Granted but the Chief Rabbi's piece was written last month. Your original reply suggested that jews "crying wolf" were harming their own cause - to which my reply would have been another hoary old meme " no smoke without fire" and I would genuinely like your take on his article.

Wow... I can't even figure out how you came to that conclusion, unless you jumped to it without even reading the article. The more you go on defending it, the more incredibly foolish you look.

I'm not necessarily the sharpest knife in the block, but after reading the article I was 100% crystal clear on what Cain's response to it meant.

I have read all the articles mentioned - have you???
I even read the reply that Cain deleted . . .
No good bleating about a conclusion if you don't specify which one
I am not defending anything - do you actually understand English?

Cain has not yet, though I hope he will, made any comment on the article by the Chief Rabbi. You must be psychic if you think he has

As you admit, you may not be the sharpest knife in the block . . . . no, no I'm sorry but I just can't I refuse to pick that one up it is just too cheap a shot . . .  


Edited to make it look pretty for Cainad -  shame he almost certainly can't be bothered to read it . . .

[Cainad (dec.)]

Learn to use the quote feature. Kthx.

[Cramulus]

I traveled through london, amsterdam & germany in 2006 and felt a moderate amount of anti-american sentiment. Certain people, particularly in Germany, were bristling to deliver their opinion about the US government. I avoided political discussion at all costs. My inarticulate and poorly read boss, however, engaged anybody and everybody at the drop of a hat. He was also talking loudly, wearing bad shorts with a fanny pack, and kept trying to order Coors Light. It was embarassing, to say the least.

I did talk to a few people about politics. Afterwards, one guy said, "You've really made me realize that the media here depicts americans very badly and that it's not always on the money."

In response to "Your president is a facist," I'd usually just say, "Yeah, we didn't vote for him." Some people actually looked surprised about that. It made me wonder about what makes the news in Europe.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Granted but the Chief Rabbi's piece was written last month. Your original reply suggested that jews "crying wolf" were harming their own cause - to which my reply would have been another hoary old meme " no smoke without fire" and I would genuinely like your take on his article.

Wow... I can't even figure out how you came to that conclusion, unless you jumped to it without even reading the article. The more you go on defending it, the more incredibly foolish you look.

I'm not necessarily the sharpest knife in the block, but after reading the article I was 100% crystal clear on what Cain's response to it meant.

I have read all the articles mentioned - have you???
I even read the reply that Cain deleted . . .
No good bleating about a conclusion if you don't specify which one
I am not defending anything - do you actually understand English?

Cain has not yet, though I hope he will, made any comment on the article by the Chief Rabbi. You must be psychic if you think he has

As you admit, you may not be the sharpest knife in the block . . . . no, no I'm sorry but I just can't I refuse to pick that one up it is just too cheap a shot . . .  


Edited to make it look pretty for Cainad -  shame he almost certainly can't be bothered to read it . . .

You, sir or madam, appear to be a complete idiot, based on your posts to this thread and apparently complete inability to navigate the painfully simplistic quote feature.

[Thurnez Isa]

using the quote feature is hard

is there a biting your own tongue icon around here?

you probably couldn't figure that out either

[MMIX]

using the quote feature is hard

is there a biting your own tongue icon around here?

you probably couldn't figure that out either

mental note -  no sense of humour either. . . ok

[LMNO]

I dunno, I though Thurnez' post was hilarious.


Guess it depends where you're standing.