reality and all that

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Here's a really broad brush Kai, care to use it moar?

I wasn't painting a broad brush, I was speaking specifically on this situation. Actually, before editing it several times, I did have several statements about possible uses in creativity, but I really don't think this is relevant right now. What IS relevant is someone is drug addled and obviously can't think straight, and needs to get sober. What is also relevant is that the best thing right now is NOT to suggest the usefulness of drugs. "Get your act together before getting high", remember?

Obviously can't think straight? Cause of a couple posts on an Internet forum questioning reality? That seems a bit broad to me, Kai. Maybe this cat is perfectly normal but is trying to work through the same issues many of us have to... when we first realize that our reality, just might not be Reality. Maybe he's not unable to think straight, or at least not any moreso, less so than any other human.

Also, I'm really not looking into Leary's original perspective on these things, because frankly I don't find it that useful. If you can't do it sober, then you can't process it correctly. Really.

So you're using his model to discuss this, but you don't want to look at his perspective on it?

Okay, fine, I /will/ paint a broad brush. I really don't care for drug use. I don't do any of it myself, I don't even smoke tobacco or drink alcohol anymore. You know why? Its fucking distracting thats why. I can't hold a coherent conversation with myself when I'm hyped up on caffeine or dumbed down on alcohol. It all comes out muddled and confused, like I haven't been sleeping enough or eating right. You all want to go off and enjoy yourselves getting stoned and enjoying your random drug induced neural firings I don't have any care to stop you, but I find it completely ridiculous when it gets rationalized as anything more than recreational masturbation and 'cheap thrills'. And I find people that do this shit all the time as simply making themselves more /stupid/, either from brain damage, addiction (physical or psychological), or just simply staying in a nonsense useless state of mind all the time (and then you come out of it and forget everything you just did). Those people are distracting themselves from doing real things and making lasting changes. I'll take sobriety and self induced "highs", thank you.

Ah, and that is the broad brush I was seeing strokes of in your previous post. You have had bad experiences with drugs or useless experiences with drugs... So you take your experience as How It Is, and apply it everywhere. Most of my friends that use pot aren't stupid, brain damaged or stuck in a nonsense state of mind.

Some of them are.

[Kai]

statistics =/= current memes

Then show your statistics and how they are disassociated from current memes, or you have no argument.

The way you use language shows you have absolutely no fucking clue what you are talking about outside your own head.

[AFK]

We're talking about chemical balances in the brain? You think the one our DNA saddles us with is the only "valid" one? Really?  Because it did nothing for you, it can't do anything for anyone else? Really? The house of reality has only one window?

it's false slack jack.   

[matthewsquires]

When one constructs a philosophy, he or she is making up a theory of how the universe works, and logical conclusions are mental tools that enable theories to work.  If we didn't have mental theories we wouldn't be able to cope in an objective universe. As subjective-feeling creatures we are forced to theorize about "how we fit into the big picture" in order to operate objectively.  There is no internal essence of things outside of what we give them, but because we give them meaning, they have meaning.  This does not depreciate the value of these objects.   They are important because we have the power to make them important, and it just happens that one of the theories we like to believe in is that objects must be valuable in-them-of-themselves in order for them to be authentically valuable.  The only reason this value-system seems necessary to us is because it was logically concluded to after theorizing about how we fit into the world.  It is like living in a world where everyone sees the color green differently.  We then all agree to label it as the word green.  So we can agree on it but that doesn't make us see the same thing.  If we say that it looks the same for everyone, we're obviously speculating.  But let's say the taste of oranges brought joy to everyone, but everyone's actual experience of the taste was different.  Like we were programmed to taste goodness so that we could keep eating it, but the actual experience of what joyfulness was, was up to everyone's imaginations after absorbing the stimuli.  Well does this mean the enjoyment is gone.  As long as your saying it's a joyful experience, you will experience joy.  So as long as you say that life is meaningful, you will experience meaning in the same way.  Life is life.  It doesn't have meaning or a lack of meaning.  We create that.  So to be bothered by this fact is like setting up a machine that has artificial intelligence and telling it to be unhappy. 

To conclude that there is a god is just as much a theory as concluding that there is no god.  Neither has more going for it or against it.  The world working according to laws means that the world works according to laws.  It does not mean there is no god, or there is a god.  Take your best guess, but you do not know either way.  Belief is different then religion.  You can belong to a church and not believe in god, and you can believe in god and not go to church.  When we choose to believe in god, we then create an image of him in our likeness.  We make him reward and punish whatever our culture happens to tell us that he rewards and punishes.  So we imagine god seeing murder bad, and that becomes one of the things he told us in the ten commandments, Over-active imaginations lead to crusades and things like that. 

Does anybody have thoughts on that.  I'm sure it's been talked about before, but it was the first time I thought it, i guess, I'm curious to see if people wanna build off that.  Like life being an onject that we experience subjectively.

[Kai]

Its a wall of text, buddy. Also, you were high when you wrote it, so it probably needs a massive amount of editing to make sense to people other than you.

[matthewsquires]

it's intelligible. give it a shot at least.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Who really is the Great Magician that makes the grass green?

I think you'll find we've discussed this a number of times... it can be a tricky area of discussion. Personally, I tend to take an absurdest approach:

I highly doubt there is some objective meaning to "Life, The Universe and Everything". However, I think that I can create subjective meanings and they're just a useful... maybe more so. At the very least, it appears to keep life interesting.

[Thurnez Isa]

statistics =/= current memes

Then show your statistics and how they are disassociated from current memes, or you have no argument.

The way you use language shows you have absolutely no fucking clue what you are talking about outside your own head.

basically formentor made a a statement where he said he suspected the statistics went one way (a statement I don't agree with) and fictionprick counter with some meme crap... and he just can't understand these are not the same.

[fomenter]

Who really is the Great Magician that makes smokes the green grass ?

fixed

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Who really is the Great Magician that makes smokes the green grass ?

fixed

Old joke is old and hoary my friend

[Captain Utopia]

statistics =/= current memes

Then show your statistics and how they are disassociated from current memes, or you have no argument.

The way you use language shows you have absolutely no fucking clue what you are talking about outside your own head.

Entirely possible And you shouldn't discount the possibility that I have no idea about what's going on inside my own head either.

I haven't sourced my claims, other than my own personal experiences with addictive substances. But for you to have a workable hypothesis, you should be providing cases which would prove it to be true as well as cases (which if true) which would prove your hypothesis wrong. Else it's just wank.

[Captain Utopia]

basically formentor made a a statement where he said he suspected the statistics went one way (a statement I don't agree with) and fictionprick counter with some meme crap... and he just can't understand these are not the same.

What are not the same, and why, or are you just here for the ad hominem?

[fomenter]

statistics =/= current memes

Then show your statistics and how they are disassociated from current memes, or you have no argument.

The way you use language shows you have absolutely no fucking clue what you are talking about outside your own head.

basically formentor made a a statement where he said he suspected the statistics went one way (a statement I don't agree with) and fictionprick counter with some meme crap... and he just can't understand these are not the same.

i went looking to see if i could find stats for this before i spoke, but every pitch Artist selling a quit method claims to be the most successful and i couldn't be bothered to figure out how to eliminate the millions of sales offers from the search..
fiction feline does seem confused or unable to communicate what he means i am not sure which yet.

[Thurnez Isa]

statistics =/= current memes

Then show your statistics and how they are disassociated from current memes, or you have no argument.

The way you use language shows you have absolutely no fucking clue what you are talking about outside your own head.

basically formentor made a a statement where he said he suspected the statistics went one way (a statement I don't agree with) and fictionprick counter with some meme crap... and he just can't understand these are not the same.

i went looking to see if i could find stats or this before i spoke but every pitch Artist selling a quit method claims to be the most successful and i couldn't be bothered to figure out how to eliminate the millions of sales offers from the search..
fiction feline does seem confused or unable to communicate what he means i am not sure which yet.

he could have caught a bad case of DK fever... that shit is contagious

[Captain Utopia]

statistics =/= current memes

Then show your statistics and how they are disassociated from current memes, or you have no argument.

The way you use language shows you have absolutely no fucking clue what you are talking about outside your own head.

basically formentor made a a statement where he said he suspected the statistics went one way (a statement I don't agree with) and fictionprick counter with some meme crap... and he just can't understand these are not the same.

i went looking to see if i could find stats or this before i spoke but every pitch Artist selling a quit method claims to be the most successful and i couldn't be bothered to figure out how to eliminate the millions of sales offers from the search..
fiction feline does seem confused or unable to communicate what he means i am not sure which yet.

he could have caught a bad case of DK fever... that shit is contagious

Is this paranoia on a wiki somewhere? What is a DK?

Look - statistics describe a very narrow view of reality. Trying to take into account both statistics and the memes which support them looks to be a superset, but even so, not necessarily correct - and definitely open to more than one interpretation. I gave you my interpretation based upon my _personal_ experiences.

Why does this have to be more than it is?