It's mah birfday...

[Triple Zero]

what

[Captain Utopia]

Did they grow up in Barrhead during the 80's?

At least one of them grew up in Easterhouse in the 90s. I'd say that's about close enough.

And I'd say that you didn't live through the bigotry and violence that I did - you're using one anecdotal source to counteract mine, and you don't really know what the fuck you are talking about.

It's entirely possible that that's just an excuse they gave. Consistently. Upon first meeting me and hearing my accent.

I thought you moved to Scotland when you were six years old? How long did you keep your accent?

I still have traces of Liverpudlian. It didn't mix that well with Glaswegian. And I sound indescribably English.

Or did some kid hit you in nursery class and you've been holding a grudge ever since?

Fuck you.

I don't get the reference. This?

That's the one.

Er no. And if you think I didn't learn to let constant insult and mockery wash over my back, then you're just as stupid as the bigoted motherfuckers who perpetuated it against me.

[Captain Utopia]

what

• You said that I did something I didn't do.
• I point out that I didn't compare posting a roadsign picture to posting childporn.
• You don't provide the non-existent quotes, but reiterate your belief anyway instead of retracting it.
• I have nothing to defend against since you're providing no proof.
• The accusation stands, and since I'm a self-admitted douche, it prevails.

I have a lot of respect for you, but this does seem to fit the pattern of an effective drive-by slur, whether you mean to do it or not.

[Dimocritus]

For the record, not only is it no longer mah birfday, this is not an alt. account. I'm all me, baby. just wanted to clear that up.

[Messier Undertree]

Er no. And if you think I didn't learn to let constant insult and mockery wash over my back, then you're just as stupid as the bigoted motherfuckers who perpetuated it against me.

I don't think exaggerating and complaining that the entire country is full of alcoholic bigots and violent racists all because a few idiots picked on you counts as letting it wash over your back. You practically accused me of being one of them all because of a joke.

But sure, I must also be an evil English-hating racist because I disagree with you. Me and my anti-English apartheid agenda, eh? Hopefully the civil rights movement will take notice of your plight someday.

[Dimocritus]

Here's an essay for Fictionpuss. It's an observation exercise from my English 1010 (Composition 1) class portfolio.

Unlike Fictionpuss, my essay does not answer any questions, and, I don't expect anyone to actually read it.


                                                                Proof

   It was noisy when I arrived. For the most part, it was the kind of noise you would usually associate with a busy subway station: hundreds of shuffling feet, conversation, the occasional stranger yelling. Add to the already raucous audio assortment the sounds of people drinking; clinking glass, heavy bottom pint glasses slamming onto pressed particle board tables and laughter. You don't usually hear a lot of laughter waiting at the subway station. The people here are not waiting for a train but are waiting for something else to transport them, in an entirely different sense of the word. They are waiting to be elevated beyond their usual zone of comfort, beyond their bubble, where people keep to themselves and they recoil at the thought of interacting with strangers.
   Drunken people do drunken things through every dingy corner of the venue. Unnecessary shouting is accompanied by people talking too close to each other, laughing at jokes that they won't remember in the morning. They crowd the bar, like little piglets trying to wedge themselves in to suckle on the teat of whatever taps are still pouring sudsy I.P.A.s and frothy stouts. The crowd does nothing but grow in size and in volume. Just like anything else, if you try to fill something past it's capacity, it's sure to burst or explode.
   I am viewing this all from my own unique and specific vantage point. My vision, while filtered as if I were wearing a pair of thick, coke-bottle novelty glasses, is capable of looking into each person I see; from the over eager teenagers, whose anticipation makes them writhe like a burlap sack full of hyperactive puppies, to the somber looking table of older folk who, at the moment, seem unimpressed and uninspired, but will soon be participating in the melee. You can only feign disinterest for so long before your core reveals you.
   I had observed from the platform that in the midst of recent renovations, the staging area was now a bit larger than I remembered it being previously, with a new drum riser and its own entry door stage left. Most of the new woodwork was left unpainted and bare, either to be finished later, or to be forgotten about entirely. Someone must have been confused, however, because they had found it okay to have placed a rather large, expensive looking flat screen television on the stage, beside the riser.    
   "That will end up broken," I said to myself out loud.
   Five police officers invited themselves in, presumably, without paying the five dollar cover. Two of them must have thought they were ninjas, as they hid in the darkest corners, as the telltale red pinstripes and clean shining badges didn't give them away completely. I'm not sure why they came. They were either frightened that such a large group of people would be able to mobilize with a sense of solidarity so strong that they could overthrow the small town in a night (free speech is dangerous), or they really wanted to see the show.
   All the noise and activity, while booming and dynamic, was nothing but a warm-up for what was to come. The noise would soon grow past a mere din and the crowd will become akin to a small, scaled down, time-lapsed model of the universe; bodies in motion moving in small orbits, and then smashing into each other with extreme force. There  is no animosity in celestial bodies when they violently interact physically with each other; they all understand that that is just the way of the universe, and they accept it, as the people do here.
   
   The bright lights, while illuminating me and my fellow colleagues, also blind us to any one standing any further than arms length away. As the crowd reaches critical mass it becomes more and more volatile. Soon it becomes clear to us that, if we do not start soon, the rabble might be so inclined to provide themselves with their own entertainment, potentially at our expense. We toy with this, deliberately wasting time telling jokes and speaking benignly about whichever current events we find to be humorous or relevant, as to bring the audience to the brink of anticipation. I am signaled by my guitarist by a brief glance, unnoticed by the crowd, that the time is now. Unexpectedly, we initiate our sneak attack with a blitzkrieg of sound and fury.
   The next forty-five minutes are a blur. The air becomes hot and moist with sweat. The thickened air is difficult to breathe. The floor becomes slick and gritty with tracked in dirt and broken glass. The music is too loud to hear, but nobody cares. The miniature model of the universe has been set into motion. In a massive tidal wave of human forms I received a violent blow to the face. I felt the microphone's metal screening breach the integrity of my lip, releasing the red connective tissue that most of us like to keep inside of ourselves. The blood tasted like copper pennies. I didn't stop. I couldn't if I had wanted to. How could one stop an avalanche or a land slide once initiated? I was no longer in charge. I was no longer the focus. I was doing what I had set out to do; channel the chaotic spirit of the universe and instill it into the crowd. They may have not even been aware of it consciously, and even if they were aware, this was hardly the time to become analytical. The people are here to validate their own existence. The pain proves you are real; that you are still alive.

TL;DR
Perchance, Do you go by the name Dead Kennedy?

TL;DR version:

Punching people helps them reaffirm there existence. An no to the DK thing.

[Captain Utopia]

Er no. And if you think I didn't learn to let constant insult and mockery wash over my back, then you're just as stupid as the bigoted motherfuckers who perpetuated it against me.

I don't think exaggerating and complaining that the entire country is full of alcoholic bigots and violent racists all because a few idiots picked on you counts as letting it wash over your back. You practically accused me of being one of them all because of a joke.

Well look, I also hold every Celtic or Rangers supporter, or anyone who even watches the games as being directly responsible for Old Firm violence. I hold every Bush voter responsible for what happened during his Presidency.

Because in the end, there is no one else to blame but the meme itself. And that's boring.

While you uphold the "it's just a joke meme", I'll continue to hold you partially responsible for the actual hatred and bigotry that inevitably results from it.

[Payne]

Er no. And if you think I didn't learn to let constant insult and mockery wash over my back, then you're just as stupid as the bigoted motherfuckers who perpetuated it against me.

I don't think exaggerating and complaining that the entire country is full of alcoholic bigots and violent racists all because a few idiots picked on you counts as letting it wash over your back. You practically accused me of being one of them all because of a joke.

Well look, I also hold every Celtic or Rangers supporter, or anyone who even watches the games as being directly responsible for Old Firm violence. I hold every Bush voter responsible for what happened during his Presidency.

Because in the end, there is no one else to blame but the meme itself. And that's boring.

While you uphold the "it's just a joke meme", I'll continue to hold you partially responsible for the actual hatred and bigotry that inevitably results from it.

Now hold on a minute.

I've had to live in Scotland as a foreigner, and school was hell. I was bullied relentlessly from almost the minute I walked through the doors to the moment I walked out of them again six years later. I had some friends but was, for want of a better way to phrase it, a complete loner for much of the time. I could never get any interest from girls, and yes, all of this does even now have an effect on me. I would be lying if I said it didn't.

Do I go on to say that everyone in Scotland is rabid nationalist, ready to rip my head off for no reason what so ever? No, I don't. That kind of statement is far too close to the reasoning my tormentors had for the way I was treated. Fuck that. I do still hate people on Scotland, but only for things that they are actually responsible for - same as any other so-called-human on this god damned rock.

I hate football. I hate watching it, I hate people talking about, I hate the obscene amounts of money involved in it and I hate how it often seems that almost everything is this country revolves around it. Do I blame some five year old kid (like my nephew) who is excited to see Celtic play Rangers for the almost inevitable scuffles and verbal abuse that break out after every game and the hideous sectarian abuse? No, I don't. He's just a kid indulging in some entertainment. To say that any of this is his fault, or will be in the future when he grows up, is the grossest misuse of the broad brush treatment.

Do I then go on to assume that we should label every single Canadian as a Harper, ready to prorogue parliament to cling on to power as long as possible coming across as highly undemocratic and worthy of the greatest mistrust? No, I don't. How about every American as a miniature G.H.W.B.?

I could go on to describe in part how this kind of sentiment is created and fostered in Scotland. I could quote history and cite the highly profitable entertainment products (like Braveheart) and I could get into social, economic and political factors. But I won't. You can see exactly the same forces at work where ever you are if you just look for them. Some of this shit is deadly fucking serious, and is a fundamental part of what it is to BE Scottish. Making a joke of something serious is what I, as a Discordian, do.

In short, get your head out of ass, lighten up and move the fuck on.

[Captain Utopia]

Do I go on to say that everyone in Scotland is rabid nationalist, ready to rip my head off for no reason what so ever? No, I don't.

Me either. But I will speak up when I see people using the same old stereotypes which keep the fires of intolerance burning.

Do I blame some five year old kid (like my nephew) who is excited to see Celtic play Rangers for the almost inevitable scuffles and verbal abuse that break out after every game and the hideous sectarian abuse?

Of course not. A five year old kid is victim to his environment. But where do you draw the line and say "hey - now you're given responsibility for your part in upholding this hatred" - 16? 21? Never?

You can see exactly the same forces at work where ever you are if you just look for them. Some of this shit is deadly fucking serious, and is a fundamental part of what it is to BE Scottish.

Precisely. I only have good experience of how it works in Scotland though. I can't dissect how it works in other places. Is that a good reason to stay quiet?

Making a joke of something serious is what I, as a Discordian, do.

And I, as me, will continue trying to highlight this form of intolerance - direct or indirect - when I see it. I don't think most Scots really ever think about this stuff, or how the consequences of their actions form a collective, tangible, hate.

In short, get your head out of ass, lighten up and move the fuck on.

I am actually pretty light about this. All the real bastards from my childhood and teens are in and out of (but mostly in) jail now. The funny part is that if they had just accepted me, then I would most likely be sharing in their shit lives. In these circumstances, it's hard to hold a grudge since they motivated me to escape the bullshit.

There does seem to be a double standard here though. I mean where do you draw the line between what I describe and:

• Telling racist jokes, but not actually putting the boot in?
• Telling sexist/homophobic jokes?
• Enabling the above by keeping quiet when you witness it?

Am I completely out of line here? I find it hard to believe that anyone who has ever experienced any kind of prejudice would advocate onlookers to just look the other way and keep your mouth shut. Unless they've already let the fuckers win a long time ago.

[fomenter]

Do I go on to say that everyone in Scotland is rabid nationalist, ready to rip my head off for no reason what so ever? No, I don't.

Me either. But I will speak up when I see people using the same old stereotypes which keep the fires of intolerance burning.

Do I blame some five year old kid (like my nephew) who is excited to see Celtic play Rangers for the almost inevitable scuffles and verbal abuse that break out after every game and the hideous sectarian abuse?

Of course not. A five year old kid is victim to his environment. But where do you draw the line and say "hey - now you're given responsibility for your part in upholding this hatred" - 16? 21? Never?

You can see exactly the same forces at work where ever you are if you just look for them. Some of this shit is deadly fucking serious, and is a fundamental part of what it is to BE Scottish.

Precisely. I only have good experience of how it works in Scotland though. I can't dissect how it works in other places. Is that a good reason to stay quiet?

Making a joke of something serious is what I, as a Discordian, do.

And I, as me, will continue trying to highlight this form of intolerance - direct or indirect - when I see it. I don't think most Scots really ever think about this stuff, or how the consequences of their actions form a collective, tangible, hate.

In short, get your head out of ass, lighten up and move the fuck on.

I am actually pretty light about this. All the real bastards from my childhood and teens are in and out of (but mostly in) jail now. The funny part is that if they had just accepted me, then I would most likely be sharing in their shit lives. In these circumstances, it's hard to hold a grudge since they motivated me to escape the bullshit.

There does seem to be a double standard here though. I mean where do you draw the line between what I describe and:

• Telling racist jokes, but not actually putting the boot in?
• Telling sexist/homophobic jokes?
• Enabling the above by keeping quiet when you witness it?

Am I completely out of line here? I find it hard to believe that anyone who has ever experienced any kind of prejudice would advocate onlookers to just look the other way and keep your mouth shut. Unless they've already let the fuckers win a long time ago.

funny thing i drew the line at the point where you asked "where do you draw the line" and read no further 

[Captain Utopia]

funny thing i drew the line at the point where you asked "where do you draw the line" and read no further 

Hardly surprising considering your demonstrated motivations towards me.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I was born in England

I'm pretty sure you can't get any less Scottish than that.

Tell me about it. But since I grew up and spent the worst 26 years of my life there, I consider myself from Scotland, but not Scottish. Thankfully.

Well as long as you understand that as long as you were born in England, to us you're about as English as Vinnie Jones dressed as the Queen while morris dancing and drinking tea (other than Scottish Blend, obviously).

Yeah - random punches to the face, death threats and a constant stream of bigotry and abuse are quite clear indications of this common belief. Never did find out what was so special about being Scottish, apart from a naturally violent inclination towards the English. The best parts of Scotland I ever found was in the countryside, but that's only because it was virtually empty as everyone else was down the pub getting pissed and telling jokes about how everything is the fault of The English.

And then you have Hogmanay, and the sugar sweet coating over the hundreds year old hatred.. and the "harmless fun" and the "not really meaning it" bullshit. Once you've lived it, it takes on shades of innocence similar to McCain singing "Bomb Bomb Iran" - you might or might not consciously wish any ill to people born south of the border, but by perpetuating the joke, you perpetuate the moronic hatred.

[fomenter]

funny thing i drew the line at the point where you asked "where do you draw the line" and read no further 

Hardly surprising considering your demonstrated motivations towards me.

no its hardly surprising since i read 5 pages of your repetitively asking the same stupid question already       

[The Good Reverend Roger]

[Payne]

Do I go on to say that everyone in Scotland is rabid nationalist, ready to rip my head off for no reason what so ever? No, I don't.

Me either. But I will speak up when I see people using the same old stereotypes which keep the fires of intolerance burning.

Nice prose. Essentially meaningless though. I tend to get more pissed off at the education system for not doing more to do some actual educating. The travesty we call Braveheart, for example, has become in some places the accepted history. If I see someone in person acting like a bigot I will call them on it and take their education into my own hands. I seldom have to do this because Scotland is in no way as bad as you are painting it.

Do I blame some five year old kid (like my nephew) who is excited to see Celtic play Rangers for the almost inevitable scuffles and verbal abuse that break out after every game and the hideous sectarian abuse?

Of course not. A five year old kid is victim to his environment. But where do you draw the line and say "hey - now you're given responsibility for your part in upholding this hatred" - 16? 21? Never?

When they actually do something to uphold that hatred. Like knife an opposing fan, or chanting sectarian slogans. We have laws to cover that btw, and in most cases now the really big penalty these morons receive is from their home clubs who can and will bar them from ever entering the grounds. I'm not going to say that everyone is responsible for the hatred. Everyone does however have a part to play in stopping it, and steps are certainly being taken in that direction.

You can see exactly the same forces at work where ever you are if you just look for them. Some of this shit is deadly fucking serious, and is a fundamental part of what it is to BE Scottish.

Precisely. I only have good experience of how it works in Scotland though. I can't dissect how it works in other places. Is that a good reason to stay quiet?

You have good experience of how it worked FOR YOU in Scotland. Twenty fucking years ago. You're still speaking from ignorance and that ignorance is a good reason to stay quiet (unless you're asking questions instead of making broad statements).

Making a joke of something serious is what I, as a Discordian, do.

And I, as me, will continue trying to highlight this form of intolerance - direct or indirect - when I see it. I don't think most Scots really ever think about this stuff, or how the consequences of their actions form a collective, tangible, hate.

There you go again with the broad brush strokes. Of course, we're all barbaric racist nationalists who can't see past the strip of whatever club we support, so it's no surprise we can't think for ourselves or take actions of our own against hooliganism, sectarianism and racism. No! It's true! Every single person in Scotland really IS like that, and has been ever since the Act of Union.

In short, get your head out of ass, lighten up and move the fuck on.

I am actually pretty light about this. All the real bastards from my childhood and teens are in and out of (but mostly in) jail now. The funny part is that if they had just accepted me, then I would most likely be sharing in their shit lives. In these circumstances, it's hard to hold a grudge since they motivated me to escape the bullshit.

Well, good for you, I guess. Being able to actually get out of the social and economic mess that is west central Scotland may have played a part in that though.

There does seem to be a double standard here though. I mean where do you draw the line between what I describe and:

• Telling racist jokes, but not actually putting the boot in?
• Telling sexist/homophobic jokes?
• Enabling the above by keeping quiet when you witness it?

You're obsessed with drawing fucking lines, aren't you? There is a context to every joke, and a context to every insult. This is not a black and white pre-planned policy friendly area. If I see a bunch of kids harassing a guy for being English, crowding around him and threatening him I will step in. Do I make English jokes? Yes, I do. Am I hypocrite? Possibly, but I don't go out of my way to demean people. And for every English joke I make, I make one about Scotland or wherever else too. The same applies to sexism and homophobia, and everything is dealt with on a case by case basis as it comes.

Hell, the last three years of Discordian meet-ups in Edinburgh we've said we were going to invade England as a Third Jacobite Rebellion to get rid of the "German" monarchy of the Windsors. The joke here being, of course, that the current head of the House of Stewart is in fact German. Even beyond that, we had an Englishman come up for last years one, from Birkenhead. He didn't get punched in the face once, Liverpool accent or no, and was in fact one of the best additions we could've had to our little group.

As for keeping quiet, you have to say sometimes for most people it's very hard to wade into a group of violent idiots spouting vitriolic bile. It's not conducive to a long and healthy life. I don't think that people think of looking after themselves as "enabling" hatred. They just don't want to get stabbed or escalate matters.

Am I completely out of line here? I find it hard to believe that anyone who has ever experienced any kind of prejudice would advocate onlookers to just look the other way and keep your mouth shut. Unless they've already let the fuckers win a long time ago.

I never advocated people looking the other way, and I never advocated keeping your mouth shut. Where the fuck did you get THAT from? Oh, you've already got me painted as an epic asshole who is like the guy that punched you in the face. Except I'm worse cause I'm not really one of them, I just make excuses for them. Something like that? Fuck you.

No one has "won" anything against me, and I certainly haven't "lost" anything.