Book Club: Angel Tech

[Captain Utopia]

Memes don't kill people -- memes ARE people.

You know what other group has that as a slogan?

Memes

[Kai]

People don't kill threads, memes kill threads.

[Cramulus]

Out of curiosity, who here is reading Angel Tech?

I hope my indifference doesn't dissuade other people - I was speaking for myself and wasn't attempting to set a negative tone. I'm only 16 pages past the intro, after all!

Prometheus Rising was a very important book to me - there's definitely some value in any book that synthesizes that knowledge in a new way.


From where I'm sitting--
the last half dozen books I've read have all been heady tomes concerned with mysticism, counterculture, or consciousness. And other stuff on RAW's reading list.
 so I kind of need a break for it, but that's just me

Likely internet memes

Could you expand upon this? I'm curious what you think we might discard in the next 20 years. The amusement generated from sharing them? The idea that they can be studied, controlled, and predicted? The misuse of the word "meme"? The law of fives "the internet is a meme of memes" - "look they are everywhere" banality? The idea that internet memes are a precursor to a new form of consciousness? Or just LOLCATs?

I, for one, am looking forward to the public release of Google Meme Search, combining Strong AI with years of internet history to trace the insertion and mutation of memes over any timeline. Of course, it'll mean everything in OM will need to be stepped up to a new level.. but I think that will just make it harder for evil memes to spread.

hmm, a search engine which indexes memes?

that would be called....


"google", no?


not sure how Strong AI relates


but we are wandering into threadjack territory

[fomenter]

i read angel tech during the height of the "new age's" popularity compared to every other nut job using the newage language this (and other falcon press books) were  the only ones that had any real self transformational value, i haven't re read past the intro yet, but i did read all the falcon press (and raw) books at around the same time, and i didn't end up with a favorite one or get bored with the others, i read them as each being a different map of the same basic territory.. and i think got value from reading them in that way...

[Elder Iptuous]

I'm still reading it....
but slowly.
based on the comments and what i have read so far, i'm left with the desire to read leary or Prometheus Rising first/instead...
this one's not too long though, so it's not a problem at all..

[Rococo Modem Basilisk]

I likewise am not far in. It'll be worth reading; I've read endless RAW and Leary rehashes of the eight circuit model already, and none of them made me tire of it particularly, so if Angel Tech manages to go through it in detail without advertising various types of drugs, I'm all for it. It also seems (from my convos with Kai) that Angel Tech phrases the higher circuits differently and has a different (possibly more make-sense) model of them, which is probably worth reading to the end for.

My critique of the new-agey language was based on the introduction, and probably if I wasn't already expecting something very much not new-agey I wouldn't be so bothered by it. I've read worse offenders in that area and enjoyed them immensely.

[Rumckle]

I started reading it last night, it isn't bad, though it seems kind of like a self help manual at times.

Anyway, out of curiosity, are any of you doing the "homework exercises" he sets?

[Rumckle]

Also, I came across this from when Angeltech was taught as a course at the Maybe Logic Academy:

http://www.maybelogic.org/anteroprospectus.htm

[fomenter]

As Fallen Angels, we are graced with living in the Age of Relativity
which has spawned a new breed of philosophical animal in catma, or
"relative disbelief." Unlike the absolute belief of dogma, catma doesn't have
to believe in anything. (This includes the belief of not having to believe in
anything.) If properly fed, groomed and cared for, catma will keep dogmas
quite busy chasing their own tales. If you listen closely, you can hear them
bark, Truth! Proof! Proof!" (SECRET MESSAGE #23: The Truth Will Set
You Free But First It May Make You Miserable.)

discordian references..

[Reginald Ret]

what does he mean when he says 'spiritual' or 'spiritual truth'?

The moment this intellect recognizes an Intelligence greater
than its own, it's up against the wall with two choices: 1) It surrenders its
authority to serve the greater Intelligence as its translator or 2) It holds fast
to its previous identity as Ultimate Creator and thus, proceeds to possess the
personality with its fearful tyranny until its inevitable confession of defeat.
Here marks the turning point between illumination and madness.

false dichotomy. (Complete Surrender or become Batshit Insane)
Assumption that intelligence is 1-dimensional.
And the worst offence: willingness to surrender.

This pisses me off.

[Kai]

In reading Angel Tech, I completely skipped the inspectional read and went straight to Analytical. I read through it very slowly over the period of several months, examining every statement and taking them all with a grain of salt. If something excited me or drew me in (as it did often) I let it happen, didn't fight it (Cf. the bit about Judging and Resisting near the beginning). If something was just too new agey to accept, I tried to put it in words that were easier for me. The whole book seemed to be full of bits and pieces of wisdom when I did this, making sure to take every suggestion on a case by case basis and not as a universal.

For example, in that bit, Regret, the key statement is "the moment the intellect recognizes an intelligence greater than it's own". If that does not occur, the two things below do not apply, and whether it occurs or not is self dependent. To put it in simpler terms, if I'm wrong about something, if I think I have an idea of how the universe works but its a false "truth", eventually I may end up staring the real answer in the face (either in the metaphorical sense or in the literal sense, as a teacher (which could be anyone, not necessarily a traditional authority, and I don't think Alli is referring to himself either)). When that happens, I either integrate that and continue on, or I fight it until you eventually give in, using up lots of energy and time in the process. The former would be "illumination" and the latter "madness" because the former is sensible and the latter what fundamentalists do.

If after trying to put it into different words and working around it via different filters, if it still sounded like new age bullshit then I discarded it. Alli is fallible just like the rest of us, and prone to bullshit as well. I don't feel bad about that; I pass over the bullshit and take the interesting stuff with me. The whole astrology section under 7th circuit comes to mind. Incidentally that pissed me off. Here I was, interested in the application of networking archetypes, and then he brings in the idea of charts. Even when I got over my initial loathing I couldn't bring myself to believe any of it.

[Reginald Ret]

hmmm ok thanks.

i was hung up on 'an intelligence greater than it's own', but if i replace that with 'a teacher' i have no problem with it.
Issues with authority and hatred of the human tendency to submit to perceived superiors? Check.


btw i think a teacher does not have to be limited to a person, it can be a situation or an aspect of yourself.

[Captain Utopia]

btw i think a teacher does not have to be limited to a person, it can be a situation or an aspect of yourself.

Or in Alli's model, an Angel?

[Reginald Ret]

btw i think a teacher does not have to be limited to a person, it can be a situation or an aspect of yourself.

Or in Alli's model, an Angel?

Sure, if that word has meaning to you. for me its just a sound which i associate with Christianity.

[Kai]

btw i think a teacher does not have to be limited to a person, it can be a situation or an aspect of yourself.

Or in Alli's model, an Angel?

Sure, if that word has meaning to you. for me its just a sound which i associate with Christianity.

Which is why I substitute it with "teacher".

Coming to terms with the author means I understand the meaning of his terms. I can then replace those words or phrases with those of mine that share the same meaning (thus being the same term; a term being a word or phrase with an unambiguous meaning within a particular context) that are more comfortable for me. If I know when Alli says "angel" he means that aspect of myself, other people and the universe that transcends my current knowledge, then I can substitute teacher for angel because in this context they are for me essentially the same term. It's a very easy way for me to get away from bothersome uncomfortable new age-y language.