Why is Discordia Irrelevant in the Year 2009?

[LMNO]

Well, what do you expect from an FJ?

[nurbldoff]

I don't know when it was ever "relevant"...

[Triple Zero]

dont ta
People are starting to take us for granted (among weird/underground circles on the West Coast, anyway) so this is the time to lie low, build up a body of work, and emerge again far, far weirder and more fully-developed than anyone remembers us being.

or maybe time to get known outside the West Coast?

or maybe, take this wrong, but I can't really imagine living in an environment where people take discordianism for granted? only a small group of my friends know even what it is, and less than one hand really knows what it is about.
i can totally imagine that you may have surrounded yourself with friends and acquantainces in a social network that sees Discordianism as "just another crazy thing", "for granted" or "yet another faux religion", and you are most definitely not the only one. I get the same idea from Suu/Richter, StMae and Cram.
but if your entire world knows discordianism and takes it for granted, doesnt that mean it's perhaps time to step out of that particular comfort zone? cause if you sort of turn your complaint around, doesn't it basically mean that you are in a situation where people will tell you what you expect to hear? not that you always agree with what you expect to hear, but will it teach you anything new?

well just some critical thoughts to mull over for a while, if you like.

apart from that I'm of course stinking jealous that some of you people actually have Discordians living within driving distance :-P

We need to find our reluctant prophet, though. They need to be pretty publicly visible, or at least have enough of a body of work that we have some basis for bringing them unwanted fame and sychophants. Most importantly of all, they must not want this to happen to them.

well out here in west-europa, it's not ready. hardly anybody knows about discordians, we have had way less public acts, so I could draw a big pope-head on Hans Teeuwen, and nobody would get it. otherwise, I would suggest to just continue recruiting Stephen Colbert? a lot of work in that direction has already been done, so just to push it forward, no?

1) Pastafarianism, The Invisible Pink Unicorn, the Church of Google, etc. are all centered around one basic joke that mocks organized religion. It lampoons the arguments often used by believers to justify belief in their deity by proposing an absurd deity and supporting it with the same arguments. Pretty much everything these irreligions do or say are variations on the parody upon which they are centered.

So, that would make them the LDD, the Little Deluded Dupes.

We gotta have those, too.

Easy to consume, slumbering semi discordians, generally hip to the cause as long as it's not too weird, but a nice breeding pool nonetheless.

2) Discordianism has a much more complex and varied nature, so much so that it straddles the line between religion and irreligion, hence the common descriptor "a joke disguised as a religion and/or a religion disguised as a joke." Discordianism is clearly getting at something, but it seems to get at something different for everybody and is perhaps unique in that dissent about what it "is" is not only an accepted (by some) part of it, but is in fact considered desirable by many of its members. It is like 'real' religions in that it invites an ongoing dialogue about what is central to it (read James P. Carse's The Religious Case Against Belief to understand wtf I'm talking about), but like a parody in that it deliberately exposes the absurdities of belief and lashes out against the restriction of thought that religious beliefs often create.

nice summary!

[Cainad (dec.)]

Glad to see people are getting what I was trying to say there.


Thoughts on Discordianism becoming widely accepted as just another goofball subculture:

I personally predict that the day Discordianism becomes "mainstream fringe"* is the day that we see the biggest schism yet in Discordian ranks. There are those who think the weirdness and shock value of merely being a bizarre and nigh-inscrutable pseudoreligion is an inherently valuable part of Discordianism, and these people will probably cease to refer to themselves as Discordians and try to find another, even farther out-there part of the fringe to hang out.

However, these people will likely take with them many of the other things that others consider central to Discordianism: a fondness for pranks and parody, an understanding that the patterns we see in the world come from our minds and that the world itself is neither Ordered nor Disordered, a willingness to bite their thumb at any and all forms of authority, especially those that demand respect before earning it, etc. Even if Discordianism's mere existence ceases to baffle and bewilder the majority, these qualities will remain and some will choose to stay under the Discordian umbrella.






* Here I am grasping for a way to describe things that are still fringe and have no hope of becoming part of the ever-more-fractious mainstream, but which many if not most people are aware of and have at least some notion of what it's about. "Mainfringe"? "The Fringestream"?

[LMNO]

If the question being asked is, "why does Discordia seem to be taken in stride as a 'silly religion' more often these days," I would have to say it's because the medium has become entirely familiar and mainstreamed.

The Culture Wars have provided us with both sides of the coin: On one hand, you have the rabid fundamentalist biblical literalists who preach that Jesus rode a Dinosaur; on the other hand, you have the militant atheists who came up with the FSM.

Add to this an entertainment culture that is more often than not based on parody, weak satire, and mockery.

Now, take one of these people and explain to them that God is a Crazy Woman, the Goddess of Chaos, who commands it's followers not to eat hot dog buns, and to introduce nonsense into every situation they encounter.

They've been all but trained to dismiss you out of hand.

[Triple Zero]

* Here I am grasping for a way to describe things that are still fringe and have no hope of becoming part of the ever-more-fractious mainstream, but which many if not most people are aware of and have at least some notion of what it's about. "Mainfringe"? "The Fringestream"?

Mingefrain.

Add to this an entertainment culture that is more often than not based on parody, weak satire, and mockery.

see: people think that guy from the dailyshow is the most trustworthy news guy.

Now, take one of these people and explain to them that God is a Crazy Woman, the Goddess of Chaos, who commands it's followers not to eat hot dog buns, and to introduce nonsense into every situation they encounter.

They've been all but trained to dismiss you out of hand.

yeah but it's only that particular slice of discordia.

i mean, it's kind of good that more people are doing that, right?

and we are free discordia, we can find new tricks. hell, I only talk to people about the crazy woman when I think they are susceptible to it. i leave the hotdog buns out of it entirely (I always thought that part of discordia was kind of retarded and about eating the menu. Plus, hotdogs suck)

[LMNO]

I was using the Eris Embodiment because that's the flavor that people seem to be talking about in the last few threads. 

I usually hold that My Discordia is more of a philosophy of perception wrapped up in some shiney paper of mixed metaphors.  There's other stuff attached to that scaffolding, like grotesque branches of thought clumsily grafted onto a rusty girder, but as ECH once said, it's pretty much "MILITANT SUBJECTIVITY" for me.

[Triple Zero]

Well yeah, and Discordia is much more than (both of) that, was my point. So not much to worry about if part of it gets co opted by the frainspleeme. I would almost claim it as partial victory. Means we can leave that up to the cabbages and continue to work on the new right?

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

In my exploration of Discordianism, from roots to the latest branches and leaves...(NOTE all of this is my interpretation of what I've read of our 'history' it is subject to my perceptions, and the honesty, or lack thereof, of the people writing the history.)

Although the Erisian Liberation Front, as first poomped from the mind of Lord Omar, was intended to be a guerrilla army, intent on mindfucking the Cabbages, Thudites and  poor deluded sods that think reality is what they see everyday... his was only one early branch of Discordianism.

Malaclypse the Younger, with his POEE, were far more interested in the self-mindfuck... to the point that he changed his brain from a strong atheistic worldview to something different and not as easily categorized. Mindfucking other people, for him, seems to have been more of a side gig and one he was not nearly as interested in. 

Camden Benares, on the other hand, doesn't seem to have aimed for parody based mindufcking at all, but more something akin to chosen realityfucking. Rather than making wild Illuminati claims like Omar to get a rise out of people, or engaging in rituals to change his brain like Mal-2, Camden appears  have simply lived a lifestyle outside of what was acceptable or remotely normal. According to the people that knew him, that involved things like doing some coke, picking up a girl at a party, fucking her brains out, coming back to the party and picking up another girl and repeating this four five or more times. (I'm not promoting this specific activity, just providing an example) He chose to live a life outside of acceptable parameters. For him, his actual life was his mindfuck. This seems to fit more in line with Crowley's sort of lifestyle, where playing with the minds of others wasn't an occasional aspect of his game, his entire existence was so far outside normal that his life was a mindfuck to others.

Other Discordians in the early days seemed to each have their own sort of thing going on. Lady Eris in New Orleans was most interested in Eris as a neopagan goddess and gaining a following of people that thought she was the Goddess Incarnate. Mordecai the Foul seems to have focused on the use of memetics (before they were called that), ontology and psychology in an attempt to improve everyones life through mindfuckery. This was definitely much different that Omar, for whom the mindfuck was the reward in itself and he didn't give much of a shit what happened to the mark.

To think that Discordianism is just a parody religion, or just about hot dogs and a Crazy Woman, seems to be limiting the experience to one branch, one small path, rather than having the freedom to cut our own paths in the jungles of reality. If everyone you know thinks/expects Discordians to do crazy/silly things to get a rise out of others... then maybe we've been playing the same tune for too long in that area.

Maybe part of the issue is the rise of the Internet and Internet Discordianism... we have worked so closely together online that perhaps we have homogenized to some extent. Discordians in the 60's and 70's sent letters/newsletters/rants etc to each other... but these were generally unique and specific to that person's (or cabal's) ideas. The Joshua Norton Cabal may not have had much in common with the John Dillinger Cabal, other than a mutual respect and sharing occasional bits of fun.

Discordianism today seems to be quickly becoming either 23PINEALFNORDOMGZLAWLOFIVEZ or something more like a BiP/Memetics/Make Discordia Relevant/Lets all Stick Apart Together kind of concept. And that's not just the gang here at PD, StMae and her crew seem to be looking at a similar approach, even Uncle BadTouch seems to be looking to create an Us sort of thing rather than an I sort of thing. Some of us seem to be eating the menu, others seem to be trying to create a Unified Menu. Maybe Discordia is becoming irrelevant because the dominant attitude is no longer "Fuck the Menu, I'm making my own dinner".

When was the last time you mindfucked yourself?

When was the last time to lived Discordia, rather than including Discordia for fun and prophet?

When was the last time that you made up something brand new and Discordish that wasn't directly tied or related to something pre-existing in the Wonderful World of our Crazy Mom?

The FSM people and the CoG people have created a parody to show up organized fundamentalist Christianity... the CoG people aren't really following Google as a deity, neither are the FSM people. It's only a facade, a joke, a small part of their otherwise materialistic and normal lives. For some Discordians, perhaps that how they see Erisianism as well... but its not the only way, nor IMO the way followed by the people who were Discordian before us. The CoG and FSM are jokes... Discordianism can be a joke, or a tool, or a lifestyle. Thats a pretty big difference I think.

(NOTE: Take everything said here with a grain of salt and if you got offended, rewrite it in e-prime until your not offended)

-Rat

[LMNO]

You had me until you stopped the history lesson and started preaching at me about how we were doing it wrong.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

You had me until you stopped the history lesson and started preaching at me about how we were doing it wrong.

Err, I was't intending it to be preaching about how we ARE doing it wrong... just bringing up points to discuss where we might be tripping ourselves up.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

You had me until you stopped the history lesson and started preaching at me about how we were doing it wrong.

Besides, if no one is surprised, shocked or confused by Discordianism any more... then maybe we are doing something wrong. Its possible you know? It is conceivable that we humans are doing something inefficiently, or ineffectively, or well, wrong. That doesn't mean I know how to do it right... only that if we aren't seeing the effects desired, then maybe there's a flaw... somewhere?

[Payne]

Discordia is irrelevant this year. Discordians are not, and never have been.

[Triple Zero]

You had me until you stopped the history lesson and started preaching at me about how we were doing it wrong.

Besides, if no one is surprised, shocked or confused by Discordianism any more... then maybe we are doing something wrong. Its possible you know?

except they probably still are, except not so much anymore in the near social circles of certain rather active Discordians. which means they probably have been doing something right [except be wary for its a dangerous place to get comfortable]

It is conceivable that we humans are doing something inefficiently, or ineffectively, or well, wrong. That doesn't mean I know how to do it right... only that if we aren't seeing the effects desired, then maybe there's a flaw... somewhere?

well yeah, but you can't actually SAY or HINT AT the IDEA that a Discordian might be "doing it wrong". cause that would reek of "Really Real Discordianism" (for Realness, sometimes even).

That doesn't mean I know to communicate these things either, of course.

But keep on doing what you're doing, cause who wouldnt want to keep getting what they're getting?

[Requia ☣]

I don't think it counts as Really Real Discordianism if the complaint is that people are too much like you, rather than not enough like you.  I kindof agree with him too, Discordians are still unique and different from each other, but that stuff seem to increasingly be 'Discordianism+something else'  instad of just different kinds of Discordia.