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Don't get me wrong, I greatly appreciate the fact that you're at least putting effort into sincerely arguing your points. It's an argument I've enjoyed having. It's just that your points are wrong and your reasons for thinking they're right are stupid.

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ANARCHISM: The Thread!

Started by Rococo Modem Basilisk, September 17, 2009, 12:30:11 AM

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Rococo Modem Basilisk

Okay, so I was reading the political quotes thread, and for a while it jacked into an anarchism debate.

Personally, I identify as an anarchist, but I side more with what Ratatosk seemed to be talking about in terms of an interpretation of the terms.

I'd argue that individualist anarchism (or rational anarchism) is the preference for a model based on cause and effect, rather than based on legislation: i.e., it is theoretically compatible with any government because it ignores the rhetoric of the government and thinks in terms of 'if I do this, I might get arrested; is it worth it?' or 'if I do this, I might get more little green pieces of paper; is it worth it?'


Anyway, my interpretation isn't a be-all-end-all, but using it as a metric allows for a rational discussion whereas the traditional (i.e., television) perception of anarchy doesn't appear to, since the I-KEEL-YOU argument is too strong.

Keep in mind that I still *can* kill you. I just probably won't, since it is unlikely that it will be awesome enough to make life imprisonment with no parole sound like a good deal.


I am not "full of hate" as if I were some passive container. I am a generator of hate, and my rage is a renewable resource, like sunshine.

fomenter

"So she says to me, do you wanna be a BAD boy? And I say YEAH baby YEAH! Surf's up space ponies! I'm makin' gravy... Without the lumps. HAAA-ha-ha-ha!"


hmroogp

Rococo Modem Basilisk

Thanks. That essay elucidates my view, more or less ;-).


I am not "full of hate" as if I were some passive container. I am a generator of hate, and my rage is a renewable resource, like sunshine.

The Good Reverend Roger

" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Rococo Modem Basilisk

Is it? I didn't think I was keeping it a secret.


I am not "full of hate" as if I were some passive container. I am a generator of hate, and my rage is a renewable resource, like sunshine.

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: Enki v. 2.0 on September 17, 2009, 10:32:29 PM
Is it?

No.  It totally fits your level of thinking.  <--- not a compliment.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Bebek Sincap Ratatosk

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 18, 2009, 07:10:21 PM
Quote from: Enki v. 2.0 on September 17, 2009, 10:32:29 PM
Is it?

No.  It totally fits your level of thinking.  <--- not a compliment.

As opposed to you not thinking and just spouting?
:lulz:
- I don't see race. I just see cars going around in a circle.

"Back in my day, crazy meant something. Now everyone is crazy" - Charlie Manson

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: Doctor Rat Bastard on September 18, 2009, 07:16:03 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 18, 2009, 07:10:21 PM
Quote from: Enki v. 2.0 on September 17, 2009, 10:32:29 PM
Is it?

No.  It totally fits your level of thinking.  <--- not a compliment.

As opposed to you not thinking and just spouting?
:lulz:

Yes, that's correct.  We Holy Men™ are not supposed to think.  We just act as a conduit for the Gods.  Incidentally, they're all monkeys, too.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Rococo Modem Basilisk

Well, if anyone wants to point out where my reasoning is flawed here, be my guest. It is easy to oppose the abolition of government; it is far harder to poke holes in anarchy as it exists.


I am not "full of hate" as if I were some passive container. I am a generator of hate, and my rage is a renewable resource, like sunshine.

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: Enki v. 2.0 on September 18, 2009, 07:30:29 PM
Well, if anyone wants to point out where my reasoning is flawed here, be my guest.

Actually, I think I'll just keep fucking with you.

TGRR,
Knows that anyone can be anything, if you just make up new definitions for words.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Bebek Sincap Ratatosk

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 18, 2009, 07:25:42 PM
Quote from: Doctor Rat Bastard on September 18, 2009, 07:16:03 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 18, 2009, 07:10:21 PM
Quote from: Enki v. 2.0 on September 17, 2009, 10:32:29 PM
Is it?

No.  It totally fits your level of thinking.  <--- not a compliment.

As opposed to you not thinking and just spouting?
:lulz:

Yes, that's correct.  We Holy Men™ are not supposed to think.  We just act as a conduit for the Gods.  Incidentally, they're all monkeys, too.

Ha!

Well, my argument is gonna start like this:

1. Either an individual believes that the government has a moral right to tell them what to do in all aspects of their life, or an individual believes that the government does not have a moral right to tell them what to do in all aspects of their life.

2a. If an individual believes the former then breaking any law is a failure on their part to stay within their moral views.

2b. If an individual believes the latter then they are an anarchist on some level somewhere between a rational anarchist, an Anarcho-communist, anarcho-capitalist, anarcho-syndicatist (I don't think thats thr right conjugation)... and the half dozen or so other philosophies that fall within the generic idea of self-governing.

As you have often made noises which don't sound like a bleating sheep willing to follow every law laid down by the government... then you are, at least, in the same philosophical boat as Enki... the only difference being that Enki admits it and you don't.

:lulz:


- I don't see race. I just see cars going around in a circle.

"Back in my day, crazy meant something. Now everyone is crazy" - Charlie Manson

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: Doctor Rat Bastard on September 18, 2009, 07:51:05 PM


1. Either an individual believes that the government has a moral right to tell them what to do in all aspects of their life, or an individual believes that the government does not have a moral right to tell them what to do in all aspects of their life.

False dilemma.  There are intermediary conditions.

" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Cain

According to Ratatok's potted history of political thought there, liberalism, socialism, communism and various forms of constitutionalism apparently do not exist.

Bebek Sincap Ratatosk

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 18, 2009, 07:52:31 PM
Quote from: Doctor Rat Bastard on September 18, 2009, 07:51:05 PM


1. Either an individual believes that the government has a moral right to tell them what to do in all aspects of their life, or an individual believes that the government does not have a moral right to tell them what to do in all aspects of their life.

False dilemma.  There are intermediary conditions.



I thought Holy men didn't think?  :wink:

Even if you believe that "sometimes" the government has a moral right to tell you what to do... it still falls within the position of Rational Anarchy. As soon as you recognize that you the individual, MUST decide for themselves if they Will or Will Not obey a law (and that Not obeying a law, isn't necessarily bad/wrong... but there may be consequences) you have stepped into the kidde pool of rational anarchism.

- I don't see race. I just see cars going around in a circle.

"Back in my day, crazy meant something. Now everyone is crazy" - Charlie Manson

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: Cain on September 18, 2009, 07:59:12 PM
According to Ratatok's potted history of political thought there, liberalism, socialism, communism and various forms of constitutionalism apparently do not exist.

Truth.  There is only total state worship, or absolute anarchy.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.