Someone explain to me...

[The Good Reverend Roger]

That is, while I find no compelling argument that the government can or should say "You can't make your own moonshine"

Other than a blind and/or insane population, I can't think of a single reason why, either.

I believe that people should have a legal right to make or grow whatever they damn well want to make or grow, and consume it as they please, provided it doesn't pose a pubic hazard (distillery explosions, meth labs etc) because whether they get it right or poison themselves should be to them.

They should have to be inspected and licensed in order to SELL it, though.

Oh, yeah, I can agree with that.

[Kai]

Thanks for the help. I still don't get this guy's motive, unless he could really be that narrow mindedly stupid. Pre-rich, huh? In other words, people who think they're gonna make a lot of money and don't want to share that with anyone. In other words, "I believe schools should be private yes, but since we DON'T have vouchers, then it really isn't financially possible for me to go to a private school". In other words, hypocrisy.

Where do these fuckers come from? They MUST breed somewhere. Maybe Starbucks.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I am planning on doing some small-scale home distilling. I have a couple of friends who already do, and it's not hard.

[Cain]

Thanks for the help. I still don't get this guy's motive, unless he could really be that narrow mindedly stupid. Pre-rich, huh? In other words, people who think they're gonna make a lot of money and don't want to share that with anyone. In other words, "I believe schools should be private yes, but since we DON'T have vouchers, then it really isn't financially possible for me to go to a private school". In other words, hypocrisy.

Where do these fuckers come from? They MUST breed somewhere. Maybe Starbucks.

The idea is efficiency.  Markets are pretty good at providing certain commodities, under certain conditions, more easily than a centrally controlled beaurucracy.  See: Soviet bread lines for more.  However, the viewpoint is taken to an extreme when everything, from the food you eat to your healthcare to education to armed forces are assumed to have the same logic.  Its an inability to understand the basic difference between different types of goods and services, coupled with the wow factor of how well a particular one seems to have worked out (ignoring certain amounts of regulations, cultural and political factors etc).

I think a few quite prominent libertarians are evil fucks (google "instapundit" if you have the time), but I think a fair few are essentially misguided, don't know clearly how economic systems work or apply the word to themselves in another way (civil libertarians, for example, or left-libertarians, and some mutualists).

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Thanks for the help. I still don't get this guy's motive, unless he could really be that narrow mindedly stupid. Pre-rich, huh? In other words, people who think they're gonna make a lot of money and don't want to share that with anyone. In other words, "I believe schools should be private yes, but since we DON'T have vouchers, then it really isn't financially possible for me to go to a private school". In other words, hypocrisy.

Where do these fuckers come from? They MUST breed somewhere. Maybe Starbucks.

"Pre-rich" = I will be wealthy someday, so I don't want to fuck it up for the rich.

The means by which they will someday be wealthy are never made clear, however.

[AFK]

Thanks for the help. I still don't get this guy's motive, unless he could really be that narrow mindedly stupid. Pre-rich, huh? In other words, people who think they're gonna make a lot of money and don't want to share that with anyone. In other words, "I believe schools should be private yes, but since we DON'T have vouchers, then it really isn't financially possible for me to go to a private school". In other words, hypocrisy.

Where do these fuckers come from? They MUST breed somewhere. Maybe Starbucks.

"Pre-rich" = I will be wealthy someday, so I don't want to fuck it up for the rich.

The means by which they will someday be wealthy are never made clear, however.

And Joe the Plumber is their mascot. 

[fomenter]

kai is you libertarian friend arguing for vouchers or all out privatization?

[Corvidia]

Public school is what gives a poor kid a fighting chance in a world where everything else is pretty much stacked against him. 

No, the schools are stacked against em too in most places.

They're still more open than what libertarian ideas about schooling would lead to (see Cain's thoughts). They teach a kid to read, do basic math, know something about science and history. Students can take skill-oriented stuff if they want, but they can also focus on more intellectual classes, too. Public schools are an avenue of escape to the middle and upper classes IF the person in question wants it bad enough and fights tooth and nail to get it. And happens to be fairly lucky as well. :P

Thanks for the help. I still don't get this guy's motive, unless he could really be that narrow mindedly stupid. Pre-rich, huh? In other words, people who think they're gonna make a lot of money and don't want to share that with anyone. In other words, "I believe schools should be private yes, but since we DON'T have vouchers, then it really isn't financially possible for me to go to a private school". In other words, hypocrisy.

Where do these fuckers come from? They MUST breed somewhere. Maybe Starbucks.

He really is that narrow mindedly stupid and selfish and hypocritical.
They breed in Starbucks, yes, and other trendy places. I find them in a chain of lunch cafes around here a lot. :P Never in local cafes, though.

[Jenne]

They breed everywhere, actually.  Most likely in an ivory tower situation, though, where the school of hard knocks has yet to come into their purview(sp?).

Also:  schools are at least a place where a kid who doesn't get fed or get medical care at home can get some.  Ask a school nurse in urban schools about this someday.  It's pretty mind-blowing...

[Corvidia]

Also:  schools are at least a place where a kid who doesn't get fed or get medical care at home can get some.  Ask a school nurse in urban schools about this someday.  It's pretty mind-blowing...

^This. My mother teaches in a very poor school and I hear all sorts of things. Like access to psychologist. I've heard some horror stories about what her kids have seen at home and at least this way they have someone to talk to about it (one kid she has this year saw a man shot in the head--he said the resulting mess looked like a broken egg). Plus, teachers are required to call child services if they suspect abuse which isn't something they get if it weren't for public schooling.


In addition to a distinct lack of compassion, I'll add that I've noticed in libertarians the idea that "if you're poor, it's your fault." They don't seem to take circumstances into account.

[Cain]

I never hear anything interesting like that.

Then again, the last school my mother was working at costs more to go to per term than the average yearly income in the UK.  So I hear stories about parents showing up with bodyguards to pay in cash for their child's tuition, the nightlife in Ankara, what the Queen's sense of humour is like, etc

[Jenne]

Also:  schools are at least a place where a kid who doesn't get fed or get medical care at home can get some.  Ask a school nurse in urban schools about this someday.  It's pretty mind-blowing...

^This. My mother teaches in a very poor school and I hear all sorts of things. Like access to psychologist. I've heard some horror stories about what her kids have seen at home and at least this way they have someone to talk to about it (one kid she has this year saw a man shot in the head--he said the resulting mess looked like a broken egg). Plus, teachers are required to call child services if they suspect abuse which isn't something they get if it weren't for public schooling.


In addition to a distinct lack of compassion, I'll add that I've noticed in libertarians the idea that "if you're poor, it's your fault." They don't seem to take circumstances into account.

Irony being:  a lot of THEM are not too well off either.  That kind of shit always amazes me.

[Jenne]

I never hear anything interesting like that.

Then again, the last school my mother was working at costs more to go to per term than the average yearly income in the UK.  So I hear stories about parents showing up with bodyguards to pay in cash for their child's tuition, the nightlife in Ankara, what the Queen's sense of humour is like, etc

I wouldn't mind hearing about the nightlife in Ankara...but the rest of it, yah, would get old real fast.

[Cain]

Pro-tip: dropping credentials from the Ambassador from the UK to Turkey gets you into the best nightclubs very easily.  Even when you're only 17.  Or so the Ambassador's daughter told me.

[Jenne]

*raises eyebrow*  THAT easy?  Dayum.