Author Topic: The Fascist Virus: Defeat  (Read 14129 times)

Cain

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Re: The Fascist Virus: Defeat
« Reply #90 on: July 07, 2009, 05:15:58 pm »
Well, its a number of things, but usually the failure of mainstream parties plus political instability causes voters to flock to fascists.  In Italy, it was their pathetic gains in WWI and the belief that the Allies were blocking their ascension to great power status, along with a militant group who took over the city of Fiume when it was taken from, as well as fears of countryside and urban disturbances from peasants and socialists respectively.  The seeds were also present in Germany, which after the war was wracked with internal problems, including the brief creation of a Communist state in Bavaria.

Usually the failure of the mainstream political parties causes political instability which they cannot resolve, and that instability causes a reaction, and the most fervent supporters of fascism are drawn from the reactions ranks.  Like the Freikorps, in Germany.  To contrast, in the UK the mainstream political parties are pretty heavily discredited, but their actions haven't caused political instability beyond that, yet.  Therefore, there can be no counter-reaction and no fascist movement with any real momentum.

Now, if you're talking about why someone would be drawn to fascism as a philosophy, it depends how you want to present it.  Some people, especially Occultists who get into Fascism, are drawn to what they believe is an absolutely antinomian and anti-Christian worldview where the clever, amoral and strong do as they want and the weak and diseased must suffer it.  Others place emphasis on the volk, or the racially restricted and highly nationalist view of the political community, which must be defended at all costs from outsiders, who simply by virtue of their difference are dangerous and subversive.  For many, the militarism was a huge appeal, as militarism has been for centuries, and especially after a humiliating defeat only 10-20 year earlier (the stab in the back myth adding the racial and political components to this failure).  Some are losers, who can only take pride in the one thing they share with successful people - namely national identity.  Some hated democracy and its weakness, its deliberation and pandering to the socialists and mobs and hated conservatism because they would never be part of the aristocratic or business elite.  And some were simply murderous psychopaths, which may account in part for fascism's ever expansive and imperialistic nature, since the best place to keep people who don't care about killing others and are hard to control is facing the enemy.

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Re: The Fascist Virus: Defeat
« Reply #91 on: July 07, 2009, 07:52:20 pm »
Hmmm.  I'm hearing that, other than major mental instability, we've got:

Solipsistic (A)Moralism, and Extreme Territorialism.


I'm sure we can all draw parallels in recent history.

Cain

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Re: The Fascist Virus: Defeat
« Reply #92 on: July 07, 2009, 08:20:19 pm »
Paris Hilton?

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Re: The Fascist Virus: Defeat
« Reply #93 on: July 07, 2009, 08:22:02 pm »
I was thinking Gordon Ramsey, but yeah.

Cain

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Re: The Fascist Virus: Defeat
« Reply #94 on: July 07, 2009, 08:58:19 pm »
True.

But yeah.  I'm kind of loathe to draw it too far down the mental disease road though, for obvious reasons.  While some certainly were, many more were not, and they still went along with it. 

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Re: The Fascist Virus: Defeat
« Reply #95 on: July 07, 2009, 09:09:00 pm »
i was thinking more the 'well organized militias' throughout the states.  I can't imagine fascism is too far off if they ever get their way.

Cain

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Re: The Fascist Virus: Defeat
« Reply #96 on: July 07, 2009, 09:11:20 pm »
They're pretty far on the right, yes, with some crazy ideas which are also popular among fascists.  Some of them are explicitly fascist, and others are what David Neiwert calls proto-fascist or Phalangist in outlook.

Given there is a good case for the KKK being the first fascist organization, and the KKK being a big influence on the modern militias, this is not too surprising.

navkat

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Re: The Fascist Virus: Defeat
« Reply #97 on: September 04, 2009, 06:43:07 am »
I haven't completely disappeared.

Alex started school three weeks ago plus, I've been working on knocking out some of the reading material Cain assigned me so as to be better versed before I come back here and discuss this with y'all.

I'm still trying to understand:
Is fascism Left, Right or independent of left or right?

I've gotten into a couple similar arguments recently. It seems that the Wingnuts think I'm a retard for questioning the "liberal fascist" train of thought and the moonbats are giving me shit for refusing to drop my whole "Fascism as an ideology, not THE platform" train of thought. It's like surprise double-penetration no matter where I go!

Someone I know and respect told me that what I'm thinking of when I criticize the extreme Liberal, socialism-by-force shit that boils my blood lately is more likely Stalinism or Maoism. Now I'm mega-confused: I thought Stalin *was* Fascist... (?)

Whatever. I'm reading stuff. It's hard. I have a busy life and it's been a loooong time since I was that little girl who used to eat books for weeks and weeks without doing anything else but eat and go potty. The advent of the webbernet has made my brain very very lazy. I find myself going "Can't I just Google or wiki this and be done with the whole bit?" I fall asleep a lot.

But I think this is important. Shit's wrong these days and I don't know if I even comprehend why. I get angry but I find myself unable to articulate beyond a pop-culture level exactly WHY. Or what it all means. I constantly worry that I'm falling into cognitive traps that make me no more atypical, complex or intelligent than the 400 lb dude with the doughnuts in the basket of his Hoveround in front of me at Wal*Mart.

The more I read, the stupider I feel.

fomenter

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Re: The Fascist Virus: Defeat
« Reply #98 on: September 04, 2009, 07:01:20 am »







these might help ...
 if i am using these diagrams of the political spectrum i still get a bit confused on what the difference between Communist totalitarian(all over one) and fascists (one over all) are in the real word where one dictator (totalitarian or fascist) runs every thing, I will leave awnsering your question to our resident experts..
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Re: The Fascist Virus: Defeat
« Reply #99 on: October 07, 2009, 02:59:49 pm »
Oops, never saw this before.  

Stalin was a Communist, and so on the left.  Communism is a left-wing ideology, in fact I would go so far as to say THE left-wing ideology, which most others can be compared to.

Stalin didn't really care about race, except where nationalism got in the way of establishing Communism.  Sure, he did some pretty nasty shit to people of several races, such as the Chechens, but that was usually because his opponents grouped themselves together on national grounds.  Stalin was about establishing worldwide Communist revolution, and all that entailed (the overthrow of capitalism, establishment of a classless society, worker ownership of the means of production - with the Leninist caveats of a vanguardist party, naturally).  Things like a return to a glorious past, or definitions of the state on racial terms, or even Nazi mysticism (an often overlooked aspect of their ideology) simply had no place in Stalin's worldview.  

You can also tell fascism was on the right by whom it allied with.  All over Europe, fascist parties allied consistently with conservative and ultra-nationalist groupings, often against Communism.  Communism was the major threat, the "levelling" of society in favour of workers and without regard to nationality, gender or race was completely anathema to fascist thinking, and presented a worldview that, they believed, would lead to weakness, dissolution of racial differences and Jewish dominance (for some bizarre reason, probably because Karl Marx had Jewish ancestry, fascists tended to believe Communism was a Jewish plot.  That Jews tended to be more sympathetic to left-wing or liberal politics because of their own history of persecution at the hands of people like fascists is apparently not a factor).  Even without the Jewish conspiracy factor, their policies and aims represented a major ideological and political threat, since naturally many workers found elements of Marxist thinking to be quite cool, even if they were not sold on the whole Communist thing.

Fomenter, I suspect those diagrams are meant to be a theoretical explanation of the ideologies, how they work best ideally.  Because even under dictators like Stalin or Hitler, there were often several centres of power capable of checking the executive - in varying ways.  But Fascism idealises the leader - the Fuhrerprinzip - while Communism idealises collective decision making over the individual.