Moral Relativity VS. An Absolute Moral System

[The Good Reverend Roger]

But how can you "reprogram" with out superimposing an absolute system?

Just because the game rules are arbitrary, it doesn't mean that they are equal.


That's been said before in this thread.

Hrm, can you rephrase this? I don't think I'm getting it. What does equality among (or lack thereof) moral systems have to do with superimposing a system or not superimposing one? Or, are you saying a "dominant" (morally speaking, not physically or intellectually) system will superimpose itself naturally?

Your quoted post indicated that RM could only be supplanted with AM.

You can easily replace one Relative Morality system with another.  It doesn't have to be Absolute in order to do so.

Ok, I understand. How can we relate this to the "RM vs. AM" argument? Outside of the pro RM argument based on tolerance (which is that AM systems are not tolerant of anything that differs form their set belief system,which leads to things like the Spanish inquisition, which is somewhat stifled by the pro AM argument that superimposing tolerance paradoxically goes against the basis of RM. Tolerance as a rule just won't work in a system where you cannot make concrete "rules").  

Tolerance only works when there's reciprocity (for an example of this not happening simply watch a republican talk about "bipartisanship" in 2005 and the same guy in 2009).  Since reciprocity is rare, tolerance of assholes is a bad strategy, as it gives the assholes the initiative.  Ergo, out goes the MR, and an AM should be installed in which THE UNRIGHTEOUS ARE CHASTISED ACCORDING TO THE DICTATES OF AN ANGRY PROPHET.  Namely me.

Give me special powers, and I will save the state.  Lend me your freedom, and I will grant you safety.  GIVE ME YOUR FIRSTBORN SONS, AND I WILL GIVE YOU GOULASH!

YARGANARG!  

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Also, I dig the word "Grok."

That's because you're retarded.  And you admire a racist.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Yes, to some individuals it does.

Then no individuals have an excuse, barring the brain damaged, and people from the American Southeast.  But I repeat myself.

Which is not at all a response to what I said... but its OK I expect nothing less from TGRR

Of course it is, once you strip the petty excuses and rationalizations aside.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Yes, to some individuals it does.

Then no individuals have an excuse, barring the brain damaged, and people from the American Southeast.  But I repeat myself.

Which is not at all a response to what I said... but its OK I expect nothing less from TGRR

Of course it is, once you strip the petty excuses and rationalizations aside.

Are you reading posts from some alternate reality again, TGRR?

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Yes, to some individuals it does.

Then no individuals have an excuse, barring the brain damaged, and people from the American Southeast.  But I repeat myself.

Which is not at all a response to what I said... but its OK I expect nothing less from TGRR

Of course it is, once you strip the petty excuses and rationalizations aside.

Are you reading posts from some alternate reality again, TGRR?

I accept your surrender.

[fomenter]

RM is often used to mean all morality's are equal  by followers of AM

the  reality that Morality's are Relative but some Morality's are better or worse needs its own name to separate the two uses of the words..

[LMNO]

"Consensus Morality"?

[Dimocritus]

Also, I dig the word "Grok."

That's because you're retarded.  And you admire a racist.

Whoah, where does the word come from? I always thought it was from HGTTG. I'm pretty sure Douglas Adams wasn't a racist. (But then again, what the hell do I know).

Also, you're making it sound like you have a choice in the matter.


AM implies that the game rules are permanent and unchanging, delivered by some Authority.

RM implies that they are not.


A quick survey of world cultures reveals that AM cannot possibly be true.

I agree with this entirely. My teacher seems to be leaning heavily towards AM, which I think makes his lectures biased, and therefore, I don't think he's portraying RM properly to the rest of the class. And now that I'm looking at my notes, what you say is an argument that we covered in class, and it was the only one that he didn't have anything to say against. This guy is gonna end up pissing me off...

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Yes, to some individuals it does.

Then no individuals have an excuse, barring the brain damaged, and people from the American Southeast.  But I repeat myself.

Which is not at all a response to what I said... but its OK I expect nothing less from TGRR

Of course it is, once you strip the petty excuses and rationalizations aside.

Are you reading posts from some alternate reality again, TGRR?

I accept your surrender.

That's all you got? I'd hoped for something better. But, if your done then we actually get back to the discussion at hand, instead of your delusions

RM is often used to mean all morality's are equal  by followers of AM

the  reality that Morality's are Relative but some Morality's are better or worse needs its own name to separate the two uses of the words..

This seems in line with my opinion as well. For morality to be absolute, there would have to be some constant outside of human consciousness and I don't have any evidence that such a thing exists. However, some moral systems are horrifically flawed.

Dimo: Heinlein - Stranger in a Strange Land.

NOTE: Some people think Heinlein is a racist because one of his books seem quite racist. If you actually read Heinlein, rather than Internet commentary about Heinlein, it appears he was writing a book ABOUT Racism being a major problem.

[LMNO]

So, either:

1) AM rules are arbitrary, yet followed as if they were not.  
2) Some AM rules are handed down from a higher Authority, but no one can be sure which rules they are.
3) All AM rules are handed down from a higher Authority, and that Authority is schizophrenic.

[Dimocritus]

Doctor: Thanks. So, did Adams pick up the word from him?

[Dimocritus]

So, either:

1) AM rules are arbitrary, yet followed as if they were not.  
2) Some AM rules are handed down from a higher Authority, but no one can be sure which rules they are.
3) All AM rules are handed down from a higher Authority, and that Authority is schizophrenic.

I'm putting this in my notes.

[Cramulus]

RM is often used to mean all morality's are equal  by followers of AM

the  reality that Morality's are Relative but some Morality's are better or worse needs its own name to separate the two uses of the words..

This seems in line with my opinion as well. For morality to be absolute, there would have to be some constant outside of human consciousness and I don't have any evidence that such a thing exists. However, some moral systems are horrifically flawed.

I hate to lead us in circles, but honest question-

how do you know that they're flawed, other than by juxtaposing them with your personal value system?

Doctor: Thanks. So, did Adams pick up the word from him?

if we can believe wikipedia, it is originally from heinlein. I first read it in the Electric Kool Aid Acid Test. After I grokked it, it never bothered me. 

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Also, I dig the word "Grok."

That's because you're retarded.  And you admire a racist.

Whoah, where does the word come from? I always thought it was from HGTTG. I'm pretty sure Douglas Adams wasn't a racist. (But then again, what the hell do I know).

Not much, apparently.  It comes from Robert Heinlien.  Google "Farnham's Freehold" to gain a better understanding of this fascinating pinhead.

[LMNO]

So, either:

1) AM rules are arbitrary, yet followed as if they were not.  Therefore, it is a specific subset of RM.
2) Some AM rules are handed down from a higher Authority, but no one can be sure which rules they are.
3) All AM rules are handed down from a higher Authority, and that Authority is schizophrenic.

I'm putting this in my notes.

Please note addendum.