A WHO report on Cocaine the US does not want you to see

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Well, I've also known people who use herion who have not damaged their personal or social lives, in the same way that I know weekend binge drinkers who have not damaged their social or personal lives...



... that is to say, I tack on a big "YET" to those statements.

A very good point. I have yet to find a drug that was 'addictive' for me, but I decided to give heroin a wide berth, just in case. I imagine my personal perception colors my thoughts a bit

[Mangrove]

Well, I've also known people who use herion who have not damaged their personal or social lives, in the same way that I know weekend binge drinkers who have not damaged their social or personal lives...



... that is to say, I tack on a big "YET" to those statements.

A very good point. I have yet to find a drug that was 'addictive' for me, but I decided to give heroin a wide berth, just in case. I imagine my personal perception colors my thoughts a bit

Rat -Heroin is addictive to you and everyone else I don't think it cares what your perceptions of it are. 

A person being given legally prescribed opiates (say, in a hospital setting) will develop dependency very quickly. The level of usage need only be every few hours or so for a week. I know of a number of addicts who started out on legal meds for pain conditions & injuries and even 'under medical supervision' they ended up as total burnouts. 

LMNO - maybe I'm not meeting the higher quality junkies but I have yet to meet a heroin user who hasn't made a total fuck up of their lives and wreaked all manner of havoc in their wake. 

[Template]

The field really focuses more on the person than the substance these days.  It's another reason I hate the "War on Drugs" term because it really is a misnomer.  My point of view isn't that drugs need to be illegal because the drugs are evil and bad.  It's because the monkeys are, well monkeys, and screw themselves up with them, and cannot be trusted to not screw themselves up, to the detriment of their communities.  Nevermind the angle of adolescents who are still developing physically, mentally, and socially who get thrown off track after getting mixed up with substances.  

I had the idea the other day of an "abuser's license".  To get alcohol and tobacco, at the moment, one requires a picture ID with date of birth and an adequate age.  Up those parameters, require different applications for different drugs, include promise not to share or fuck up, and there, something easy but limiting.

[Golden Applesauce]

The field really focuses more on the person than the substance these days.  It's another reason I hate the "War on Drugs" term because it really is a misnomer.  My point of view isn't that drugs need to be illegal because the drugs are evil and bad.  It's because the monkeys are, well monkeys, and screw themselves up with them, and cannot be trusted to not screw themselves up, to the detriment of their communities.  Nevermind the angle of adolescents who are still developing physically, mentally, and socially who get thrown off track after getting mixed up with substances.  

I had the idea the other day of an "abuser's license".  To get alcohol and tobacco, at the moment, one requires a picture ID with date of birth and an adequate age.  Up those parameters, require different applications for different drugs, include promise not to share or fuck up, and there, something easy but limiting.

How about the person would have to show proof of neurological immunity to the substance in question?

[Template]

The field really focuses more on the person than the substance these days.  It's another reason I hate the "War on Drugs" term because it really is a misnomer.  My point of view isn't that drugs need to be illegal because the drugs are evil and bad.  It's because the monkeys are, well monkeys, and screw themselves up with them, and cannot be trusted to not screw themselves up, to the detriment of their communities.  Nevermind the angle of adolescents who are still developing physically, mentally, and socially who get thrown off track after getting mixed up with substances.  

I had the idea the other day of an "abuser's license".  To get alcohol and tobacco, at the moment, one requires a picture ID with date of birth and an adequate age.  Up those parameters, require different applications for different drugs, include promise not to share or fuck up, and there, something easy but limiting.

How about the person would have to show proof of neurological immunity to the substance in question?

Then there's absolutely no point.  I was imagining recorded, graded exposure under controlled conditions, and certification in first aid.

[East Coast Hustle]

Well, I've also known people who use herion who have not damaged their personal or social lives, in the same way that I know weekend binge drinkers who have not damaged their social or personal lives...



... that is to say, I tack on a big "YET" to those statements.

A very good point. I have yet to find a drug that was 'addictive' for me, but I decided to give heroin a wide berth, just in case. I imagine my personal perception colors my thoughts a bit

Rat -Heroin is addictive to you and everyone else I don't think it cares what your perceptions of it are. 

A person being given legally prescribed opiates (say, in a hospital setting) will develop dependency very quickly. The level of usage need only be every few hours or so for a week. I know of a number of addicts who started out on legal meds for pain conditions & injuries and even 'under medical supervision' they ended up as total burnouts. 

LMNO - maybe I'm not meeting the higher quality junkies but I have yet to meet a heroin user who hasn't made a total fuck up of their lives and wreaked all manner of havoc in their wake. 

or, you have and since they hadn't made a total wreck of their life and wreaked all manner of havoc in their wake, you just didn't know you'd met a heroin user.

TBH, that's pretty much the only drug I haven't tried so I'm not speaking from experience, but I've known casual users, much the same way I've known people who blew a gram of coke on weekends, or people who eat shrooms or acid whenever they go camping, or people who get plastered drunk every friday night and still manage to carry on normal, reasonably productive lives that had a neutral or positive impact on their communities. Point is that, as with almost anything, the extreme cases tend to get the most attention.

[Mangrove]

ECH,

I see what you're saying about the 'occasional' user though all the junkies I've encountered of late all started out that way. I don't doubt that there are people who use it from time to time and aren't overly bothered by it. The trouble is, it's a Russian Roulette - who knows who/when that person crosses the threshold from 'casual' into 'regular'. So to clarify my original statement: I don't know any regular heroin users who haven't created a huge amount of trouble for themselves and others.

I'll spare PD.com the gory details for now, but unfortunately Mrs Mang & I have had to witness the effects of heroin and the whole culture that goes with it at very close quarters. (Anyone who has had to endure protracted & regular interactions with junkies will know what I'm talking about.)


 

[East Coast Hustle]

no argument there.

junkies are even worse than hippies.

[Mangrove]

no argument there.

junkies are even worse than hippies.

Agreed.

Not that I've met one yet, but the only thing I can think of that would be worse would be a Wiccan Junky.