Cocaine Vaccine

[Thurnez Isa]

It worked better then the placebo, or "was associated with significantly reduced cocaine use", but doing better then placebo is apparently not that hard, since "only 38% of the vaccinated subjects attained these IgG levels and they had only 2 months of adequate cocaine blockade", but since it actually works better then the placebo they "need improved vaccines and boosters," to create a vaccine that is ready for public use, and help the people in need of the vaccine and hopefully return the investment made by the backers on this research.

Sigh... it worked better than a placebo vaccine.

I wanted to know if it also works better than feeding then placebo cocaine, as I made clear ten times already.

The only difference between the two groups is that one vaccine is the cocaine vaccine and the other is not, it's a placebo.  Everything else is the same.  The results show what when the vaccine is the cocaine vaccine, there is a higher level of abstinence and clean urine readings.  Everything else is the same.  That is what is being studied, the impact the vaccine has on levels of abstinence.  It is really that simple.  

Yes, I know that. I don't question the research, I question the practical implication, as I said before, it's interesting on a scientific level, but probably not on a practical level because some older things probably work better. Like placebo cocain pills. Which is also a trick, you just give them fake cocain pills they think are real to let them abstain.

so your going to get practice implications from where, your ass?

Im done with idiot troll

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I'll clean this thread up whenever the OP asks.

[MornTheOrator]

because its the same effect
"This is a drug that will make you better" - but of course the drug doesn't actually exist
"This is the drug that your addicted do and taking it here in smaller margins will make you better" - but of course the drug doesn't actually exist.

and they have studied cocaine placebos since the 70's and the still do study it
http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1864767,00.html

it's a different treatment (Im not going to repeat with RWHN said so look back) ... and since they have been studying it for years now, and nothing has come of it, despite a couple of positive sounding news articles, I wouldn't be holding my breath on it
When you test treatments you don't test your treatment against someone elses treatment. You test it against your treatment, so you could try to falsify your hypothesis. \
No treatment is going to be 100 % effective so you have to a variety of ... Now Im repeating RWHN

I never claimed it wasn't effective and said that it was interesting. I just wanted to know if it was any better that what there already was. Because this treatment's processing is complex. And complex is often less effective, people often make high tech technologies for a lot of things where old things simply still work better for. Like that person that invented some kind of controlled laser demolition and his company went broke on it because no one was interested as dynamite still worked better.

I asked about two pages back if this was better than a placebo cocaine pill and gave been getting back unrelated answers since. I never said it wasn't effective, I just wanted to know if it was better than a placebo cocaine pill because the last option is a lot simpler to make.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Silence for the first 10 seconds or so, but then the powerful, thunderous farts start.  The volume of these rat-a-tat farts is incredible, along the lines of elk antlers clashing or a large tree cracking as it is felled.  There are rumors (unconfirmed) that local police have recorded these airbeefs at 103db.  Of course splattering sounds accompany these inhuman shit/air rumblings, and occasional a large volume of water/shit is heard to be splashed out on the floor.  The end of the BM is usually about a 45-second high pitch whiner fart, followed by 4 or 5 successive powershit deposits.  If you could put shit in those T-shirt cannons they use at sports arenas, and then shoot the shit into water at close range, then you could reproduce these splash sounds.  BLAM BLAM BLAM BLAM.  You actually feel bad for the toilet after this.  All the while TGRR sings Opera in response to exceptionally disgusting discharges.  The end of the experience is a muffled rubbing sound as TGRR wipes with bath towels, and the occasional slapping sound as he swats the soiled towels against the bathroom wall, creating messes that populate Arizona lore regarding nightmare workplace restroom experiences.

[AFK]

because its the same effect
"This is a drug that will make you better" - but of course the drug doesn't actually exist
"This is the drug that your addicted do and taking it here in smaller margins will make you better" - but of course the drug doesn't actually exist.

and they have studied cocaine placebos since the 70's and the still do study it
http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1864767,00.html

it's a different treatment (Im not going to repeat with RWHN said so look back) ... and since they have been studying it for years now, and nothing has come of it, despite a couple of positive sounding news articles, I wouldn't be holding my breath on it
When you test treatments you don't test your treatment against someone elses treatment. You test it against your treatment, so you could try to falsify your hypothesis. \
No treatment is going to be 100 % effective so you have to a variety of ... Now Im repeating RWHN

I never claimed it wasn't effective and said that it was interesting. I just wanted to know if it was any better that what there already was. Because this treatment's processing is complex. And complex is often less effective, people often make high tech technologies for a lot of things where old things simply still work better for. Like that person that invented some kind of controlled laser demolition and his company went broke on it because no one was interested as dynamite still worked better.

I asked about two pages back if this was better than a placebo cocaine pill and gave been getting back unrelated answers since. I never said it wasn't effective, I just wanted to know if it was better than a placebo cocaine pill because the last option is a lot simpler to make.

I've given you the answer twice or more times now but you apparently are unable to understand it.  Is it better?  Yes, for some.  Just like any kind of treatment for anything.  The nicotine patch works for some, for some it doesn't.  The flu vaccine is going to be effective for some, for some it won't be effective. 

See, this is the way life works.  There is no silver bullet for anything.  ANYTHING.  Have you ever watched those adds for the Cervical Cancer vaccines?  What do they say?  It is only effective against, SOME, forms of cervical cancer, and even then, you might still get it.  It's an option. 

This study shows that this cocaine vaccine option is effective compared to a placebo.  Does that mean if you prescribe the vaccine to every cocaine abuser it is going to work for all of them?  No, of course not.  But again, it is just one tool.  This person will also be getting therapy and said therapist would obviously look for another option if the vaccine wasn't working. 

So again, yes, it is effective for some people, but not all.  But nothing, and I mean NOTHING in life works that way.  This isn't a unique scenario. 

[AFK]

I'll clean this thread up whenever the OP asks.

Nah, it's okay.  This is a teachable moment for Morton, or whatever his name is.  He's gotta learn somehow. 

[Template]

that's pretty cool RHWN.

But will it end up like methadone, replacing one addiction with another, or is it none addictive, like that shit that makes you throw up when you smoke?

Nonaddictive, but not suck.

Basically, it makes cocaine less effective in the user's body.
The hit that did this before the vaccine: 
Now does this: 

By whatever process, the vaccination seems to make it easier to keep quitting cocaine.  My impression is that relapsing becomes less rewarding, so one relapse isn't a disaster anymore.

[LMNO]

Wait... Moron was actually asking if the vaccine was more effective than giving a recovering addict a placebo and calling it cocaine?


Learn2Science.

[East Coast Hustle]

you think he's dumb...

just wait until he knocks up his sister. Those kids are gonna set new records for stupidity.

[Triple Zero]

To be fair, I'm pretty sure the "incest" remark was just a hyperbole for being real close to her brother, in a non-sexual, trusted best-friend kind of way, or perhaps an "only you understand me" kind of way. I'm not sure if you zoomed in on that just to piss him off or not, but in the Netherlands it's kind of easier to joke about such matters and it doesn't really mean what it means.

The lolita thing is still disgusting, of course.

And he was an asshole in general. So whatever, he deserved it. Actually I don't really want to defend him, I actually just wonder if the "incest" bashing was to simply piss him off or whether you believed there was a grain of truth in it.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

To be fair, I'm pretty sure the "incest" remark was just a hyperbole for being real close to her brother, in a non-sexual, trusted best-friend kind of way, or perhaps an "only you understand me" kind of way. I'm not sure if you zoomed in on that just to piss him off or not, but in the Netherlands it's kind of easier to joke about such matters and it doesn't really mean what it means.

The lolita thing is still disgusting, of course.

And he was an asshole in general. So whatever, he deserved it. Actually I don't really want to defend him, I actually just wonder if the "incest" bashing was to simply piss him off or whether you believed there was a grain of truth in it.

I didn't really consider it.

[Triple Zero]

Point.

[Iason Ouabache]

We can probably scrap this idea now.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/04/AR2010010402752.html

The vaccine, called TA-CD, shows promise but could also be dangerous; some of the addicts participating in a study of the vaccine started doing massive amounts of cocaine in hopes of overcoming its effects, according to Thomas R. Kosten, the lead researcher on the study, which was published in the Archives of General Psychiatry in October.

"After the vaccine, doing cocaine was a very disappointing experience for them," said Kosten, a professor of psychiatry and neuroscience at Baylor College of Medicine in Houston.

Nobody overdosed, but some of them had 10 times more cocaine coursing through their systems than researchers had encountered before, according to Kosten. He said some of the addicts reported to researchers that they had gone broke buying cocaine from multiple drug dealers, hoping to find a variety that would get them high.

[Requia ☣]

Doesn't make the drug invalid, like was discussed earlier you have to use the right treatment for the right person.

Still, it might be better to stick with the class of drugs that fuck with the addiction part instead of the getting high part unless something like this turns out to be really effective.

[Thurnez Isa]

Hypothetically, (complete sci fi) if there was a vaccine that could vaccinate kids from the effects of cocaine if, or as a parent would you use it?

Personally I would say 100% No, BUT I do make most of my IRL decisions completely out of emotions, and if I was a parent I could totally see myself doing it.