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Scientific Monastics?

Started by Kai, October 12, 2009, 05:46:49 PM

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Kai

From the latest Nature. They run this section called Futures, which often contains some interesting literature.

QuoteLife in a monastic lab

Joost Uitdehaag

The bell rang for evensong as Jorge attached the power-pack and started his gel. He smiled. He liked it when everything was exactly in time. He left the lab and walked towards the chapel. On the way he met his older friend, Anselm, who hurried along as usual.

"Slow down," Jorge whispered. "What's the use?"

"What's the use of being slow?"

"Slow is about taking aim."

"Where did you get that from?"

"A penitence session."

"Don't mention those."

"You mean they are counterintuitive to a fearful old individualist. Really, you should join. Maybe even tonight?"

Anselm just smiled. They stopped talking as they entered the chapel. It had a pleasing retro ambience — its design influenced by Le Corbusier's famous Chapel of Notre Dame — amid the lab complex of the Benedictine Order for Oncology, set in a remote valley in the Ardennes.

For Jorge, his lab was one of the good things the great crisis had brought: a total reshuffling of drug research, an injection of idealism in a world of self-interest. That the injection had come from religion was no surprise for Jorge. Management gurus had been courting religious rules long before the crisis. Live for yourself or for your community, that was the post-crisis choice, and science and religion were both community efforts. Scientific monasticism was a new synthesis, the ultimate way of serving society.

All the scientists had gathered in the chapel, and they started a medieval hymn. Singing together was supposed to stimulate collaboration and equality, but Jorge was still bad at it. During the hymn he worried about Anselm. His friend had started to complain again about giving up the 'self' side of science. He was a former academic and had this all-pervading desire to compete and establish his name, but within the Order that would get him into trouble. They gave you a permanent contract and a budget so there was no need to worry about grants or tenure, but in return the Order demanded no double work, no egos and no secrecy.

If only Anselm had been a pharma man. Novices from industry generally had less trouble giving up the self-side. But then again, those who had worked through the Barren Years had generally less passion for their jobs than a zebrafish for a barcode.

Jorge wondered why people could not simply decide if they really wanted to live their undergraduate dreams and work on curing disease, or if they wanted something else. Anselm always said he was naive.

"Idealists have a history of getting hurt," he would say.

"Isn't that the whole point," Jorge would reply, "that contributing costs you?"

"You just haven't suffered yet."

Anselm had been damaged by his time in academia; that much Jorge knew. That's why doing penitence tonight would be good for him. It would give him that perfect feeling that all was well and that he was living a good life. If only Jorge could convince him.

The singing finished and Abbott Fra Paolini spoke about the Barren Years. That was the time when ever larger pharma companies and a society ever more hostile to them together had driven the cost of developing a drug to $2 billion. And what was considered worse: to the cost of a thousand scientific careers. It had been the scientific equivalent of the Somme offensive.

With a wide movement of his hands, Fra Paolini spoke of the day when seven ex-pharma scientists had taken up vows in a monastery to continue a 'killed' project. It was a golden move. Their vows of poverty (no patenting, no bonuses), chastity (do nothing that satisfies only yourself) and obedience (listen to what patients want) were the right guarantees for patient organizations and health insurers to pour money into monastic research labs. In the past year, these labs had developed and published the majority of new therapies (generics companies usually took up marketing them).

After the ceremony, Jorge waited for Anselm.

"Why do you fear a penitence session? You know they did this all the time in the old days: remember Borel and cyclosporine? It's part of our tradition. It is why the public likes us."

"I don't fear it. I just don't think it's rational. It's hysterics."

"I'm not hysterical."

"But you're not joining tonight are you?"

Jorge did not answer. Anselm stopped walking and gave him an angry look.

"You are! That would be what, the second time in a month? You're wasting yourself."

"The supervisory committee allowed me."

"Sure they do. Bunch of vampires, they are."

"It has nothing to do with them and all with me," Jorge hated being berated.

"I won't allow you," Anselm said.

"What do you want to do? Swap places?"

"If that's what it takes."

Jorge was amazed. Was getting Anselm to do penitence really this simple? Was he really going to give up his principle for a worry about a friend? Anselm never ceased to surprise him.

"All right," he said.

In the monastery, most clinical trials were carried out in the infirmatorium, on a veranda filled with the evening's sunlight. Jorge was sitting at Anselm's bed.

"You are getting chimidinib," Jorge said, "the first inhibitor of the Chung-Mi variant isomerase. Have you seen the preclinical data?"

"Yes. They're ok."

Jorge rolled up Anselm's sleeve as a nurse prepared the drip.

"You want some blood for western blotting tomorrow?"

Anselm nodded. "Don't worry," he said as the compound started to enter his body.

But Jorge felt guilty. That night he did the only sensible thing: he lit a candle for his friend.
If there is magic on this planet, it is contained in water. --Loren Eisley, The Immense Journey

Her Royal Majesty's Chief of Insect Genitalia Dissection
Grand Visser of the Six Legged Class
Chanticleer of the Holometabola Clade Church, Diptera Parish

Richter

Good narative, but I really like the concept.  I honestly think that is sort of conscience and discipline that research and "Science" should eb carried out with.
Quote from: Eater of Clowns on May 22, 2015, 03:00:53 AM
Anyone ever think about how Richter inhabits the same reality as you and just scream and scream and scream, but in a good way?   :lulz:

Friendly Neighborhood Mentat

Kai

Research is so often about getting your name out and being well known that the humility that came with this story was very interesting.

"Benedictine Order of Oncology". How about an Order of Ecology? Or Systematics?
If there is magic on this planet, it is contained in water. --Loren Eisley, The Immense Journey

Her Royal Majesty's Chief of Insect Genitalia Dissection
Grand Visser of the Six Legged Class
Chanticleer of the Holometabola Clade Church, Diptera Parish

Richter

How about ANYTHING where all you hold sacred is proper, ethical research methodology via the scientific method?    :)
Quote from: Eater of Clowns on May 22, 2015, 03:00:53 AM
Anyone ever think about how Richter inhabits the same reality as you and just scream and scream and scream, but in a good way?   :lulz:

Friendly Neighborhood Mentat

Kai

Quote from: Richter on October 13, 2009, 01:46:55 AM
How about ANYTHING where all you hold sacred is proper, ethical research methodology via the scientific method?    :)

It would be interesting. No drive for money, no need for reward. Simply, living as a researcher for the good of all and no more.
If there is magic on this planet, it is contained in water. --Loren Eisley, The Immense Journey

Her Royal Majesty's Chief of Insect Genitalia Dissection
Grand Visser of the Six Legged Class
Chanticleer of the Holometabola Clade Church, Diptera Parish

Richter

Yeah, very idealistic, but also pragmatic as far as removing BS from the process.
Then we just need an accompanying monastic order producing them.
Quote from: Eater of Clowns on May 22, 2015, 03:00:53 AM
Anyone ever think about how Richter inhabits the same reality as you and just scream and scream and scream, but in a good way?   :lulz:

Friendly Neighborhood Mentat

Kai

Quote from: Richter on October 13, 2009, 02:20:27 AM
Yeah, very idealistic, but also pragmatic as far as removing BS from the process.
Then we just need an accompanying monastic order producing them.

A monastic would have to devote their whole life to science, something most scientists wouldn't care for.
If there is magic on this planet, it is contained in water. --Loren Eisley, The Immense Journey

Her Royal Majesty's Chief of Insect Genitalia Dissection
Grand Visser of the Six Legged Class
Chanticleer of the Holometabola Clade Church, Diptera Parish

Requia ☣

Inflatable dolls are not recognized flotation devices.

Kai

Quote from: Requia ☣ on October 13, 2009, 03:23:23 AM
I'd sign up.  For the lulz.

I think that's the point though. It's not for the lulz. In the story, the fact that they follow certain rules of ordination means they get non-profit funding which allows them to do incredible, selfless research.
If there is magic on this planet, it is contained in water. --Loren Eisley, The Immense Journey

Her Royal Majesty's Chief of Insect Genitalia Dissection
Grand Visser of the Six Legged Class
Chanticleer of the Holometabola Clade Church, Diptera Parish

Igor

Neal Stephenson's latest book Anathem goes into this idea veeery thoroughly. It also has the "was maths invented/discovered" thing, and parallel universes and ninjas and space aliens....

It's a long read but definitely worth checking out.
Be what you would seem to be - or, if you'd like it put more simply - never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be otherwise.

Richter

The idea that the members of the order are themselves the test subjects is interesting too.  It's soemthign that you don't hear of much outside of comic book super - villans, and would REALLY drive home producing a safe, well tested product.  How many researchers currently would take their own products during the first human trial? 
Quote from: Eater of Clowns on May 22, 2015, 03:00:53 AM
Anyone ever think about how Richter inhabits the same reality as you and just scream and scream and scream, but in a good way?   :lulz:

Friendly Neighborhood Mentat

Kai

Quote from: Richter on October 13, 2009, 01:03:31 PM
The idea that the members of the order are themselves the test subjects is interesting too.  It's soemthign that you don't hear of much outside of comic book super - villans, and would REALLY drive home producing a safe, well tested product.  How many researchers currently would take their own products during the first human trial? 

They wouldn't. Interesting how they call the self testing "penance" as well.
If there is magic on this planet, it is contained in water. --Loren Eisley, The Immense Journey

Her Royal Majesty's Chief of Insect Genitalia Dissection
Grand Visser of the Six Legged Class
Chanticleer of the Holometabola Clade Church, Diptera Parish

Richter

Quote from: Kai on October 13, 2009, 02:19:18 PM
Quote from: Richter on October 13, 2009, 01:03:31 PM
The idea that the members of the order are themselves the test subjects is interesting too.  It's soemthign that you don't hear of much outside of comic book super - villans, and would REALLY drive home producing a safe, well tested product.  How many researchers currently would take their own products during the first human trial? 

They wouldn't. Interesting how they call the self testing "penance" as well.

Despite the light the narrative casts it in, I dislike the sentiment that there should be expectation or peer pressure to participate in it (Whether as an optional practice, or to assuage some past guilt). 

If it's for the sake of appreciating safe, ethical practice, and assuming the same risks as researcher that any other usuer of you products would assume, then I agree with the idea.
If it's being done as a method of assuaging guilt, then I'd consider it as pathological and masturbatory as any other form of mental or physical self harm.     
If I was in such a monastic situation, I'd keep mindful of if participating in my own trials was only for the sake of gratifying myself, which would go agaisnt the spirit of a vow of chastity.
Quote from: Eater of Clowns on May 22, 2015, 03:00:53 AM
Anyone ever think about how Richter inhabits the same reality as you and just scream and scream and scream, but in a good way?   :lulz:

Friendly Neighborhood Mentat

LMNO

It seems to me like he was trying to stretch the analogy, and it tore a little.

Requia ☣

It seems kindof dumb.  There are a lot of drugs out there that are really really nasty, shit that wouldn't ever go into human trials except it treats something lethal (see pretty much any cancer treatment).  There are other drugs that have nasty side effects if and only if you lack the right disease.  Oh, and if you don't actually have the condition, the test won't tell you anything about how effective it is.
Inflatable dolls are not recognized flotation devices.