THE ULTIMATE DISCORDIAN TROLL THREAD

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Um, the agricultural revolution IS technology.

Well, yes... this is the generally accepted paradigm... I guess I'm trying to jump out of it for a sec, and picture a technological society which did not rely on sedentary agriculture from the onset.  

Not possible.  No surplus food = no surplus population = no room or time for innovators beyond those which offer immediate benefits for gaining food.

[Vaudeville Vigilante]

Just call me VV, double V, or fuckface, or whatever.

2) I think it'll happen naturally as our race matures. Disconnecting "from the chain-of-command mode of thinking and living" is a natural and logical next step.

I like your optimism.  

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Just call me VV, double V, or fuckface, or whatever.

2) I think it'll happen naturally as our race matures. Disconnecting "from the chain-of-command mode of thinking and living" is a natural and logical next step.

I like your optimism.  

That's like saying "I like your syphilis".

TGRR,
Knows optimism is a disease.

[Vaudeville Vigilante]

2) I think it'll happen naturally as our race matures. Disconnecting "from the chain-of-command mode of thinking and living" is a natural and logical next step.

Um, what the hell gives you THAT idea?  We're still the monkeys we were 2000 years ago.

I also like your cynicism btw. 

[P3nT4gR4m]

Just call me VV, double V, or fuckface, or whatever.

2) I think it'll happen naturally as our race matures. Disconnecting "from the chain-of-command mode of thinking and living" is a natural and logical next step.

I like your optimism.  

That's not optimism. Optimism is knowing that for a long time before that happens I'll be able to sit back and watch monkeys beating each other over the head with increasingly heavy sticks

[Cramulus]

The monkey brain is hard wired for authority, leadership, and dom/sub relationships, so it's an uphill battle. I think there may one day be pockets of people who are socialized to get over some parts of their monkey programming. But these will be oasises. Like the hippie communes of the 60s, they can only exist in isolation, and are only a utopia for those that buy in. That being said, it sounds like a nice place to live.

I don't think that model of living will ever gain primacy because there's too much chaos built into humans. I consider myself an upstanding dude, but I can only imagine how I'd act if there were no cops around to regulate my behavior.

[P3nT4gR4m]

The monkey brain is hard wired for authority, leadership, and dom/sub relationships, so it's an uphill battle. I think there may one day be pockets of people who are socialized to get over some parts of their monkey programming. But these will be oasises. Like the hippie communes of the 60s, they can only exist in isolation, and are only a utopia for those that buy in. That being said, it sounds like a nice place to live.

I don't think that model of living will ever gain primacy because there's too much chaos built into humans. I consider myself an upstanding dude, but I can only imagine how I'd act if there were no cops around to regulate my behavior.

Do what I do and fuck off into the wilderness. The answer, in my case, is to get disgustingly drunk and then find some new and exiting way to risk injury or death.

[Vaudeville Vigilante]

Um, the agricultural revolution IS technology.

Well, yes... this is the generally accepted paradigm... I guess I'm trying to jump out of it for a sec, and picture a technological society which did not rely on sedentary agriculture from the onset.  

Not possible.  No surplus food = no surplus population = no room or time for innovators beyond those which offer immediate benefits for gaining food.

This the obvious answer and probably the correct one... I'm just trying to ask the old anthropological questions from different angles.  I'm aware of the no time argument, but I'm not sure it has proven correct under cultural analysis of modern day hunter-gatherer societies.  They have arguably more free time than we "civilized" prats.  Could you clarify the "no room" part tho?  Thx.

[P3nT4gR4m]

An unproductive mouth, chewing at the kill, is one too many.

[Triple Zero]

Some classic, time tested opening gambits.
-talk about anarchy
-try to explain Discordia as if someone misunderstands it
-accuse people of being dogmatic
-reply to roger when he's good and pissed

there are tons of others, I'm sure somebody can fill in the blanks

- killing X% of humanity cause the planet is crowded / to save nature
- having kids is a horrible thing
- explain enthousiastically about something that a lot of people already know like it's the latest hot shit (then condescendingly explain details on the subject as we point this out)
- (chaos) magic / occult / new age / pseudoscience / self help / quantum
- check out my band we're inspired by Limp Bizkit / koRn / SOAD / Metallica / ICP , then link to some bad MySpace band with music that is vaguely like that.
- all opinions are equally valid so you cannot disagree with me plus your reactions are hilarious to me
- !'m wr!t!ng th!s way to show that ! am spec!al
- consistently post in bold, italic, colour etc because that's "your thing"
- bad dada / surrealism, language is relative
- speak in obvious slang or olde englysh
- speak about the PD forum as if it's a homogenous mass with only one opinion
- You didn't like the BIP because it was "too dark"
- jack topics about essays such as in OKM into fluff topics by going into unrelated details in as less posts as possible. do this repeatedly.
- make unfounded claims about easily researchable topic but refuse to actually read the research when people point it out. ask them to explain it to you. (do nevar fucking google it)
- 4chan memes

boy we really get all of them don't we?

Endgame: at some point, somebody will say "PLEDGE", which means they are suggesting everybody takes a pledge to not reply to you anymore. This is actually the most effective tool we have against trolls. We seldom sucessfully use it because it's too fun to provoke someone, and it only takes one person ignoring the pledge to screw it up for everybody else. The best way to avoid the pledge is to show a little "promise" - meaning, admit that you're wrong once ever three arguments or so. Occasionally show that you can be a cooperative poster. If you're both helpful and destructive, people won't be able to make up their minds about you.

When they pledge, you should apologize. Apologize profusely. Admit all your mistakes. Appear as sincere as possible and tell us you have seen your mistakes learned your lesson and will be a good panda from now on. Now write some neutral things. Comment on stuff. Be nice. But you don't need to be smart about it, say dumb stuff, say it some more.. dumber.. a bit more dumb and .. yes! someone disagrees with what you said, now you can explode again. We call this one "doing the Daruko".

- Now work a "hivemind" argument into it, everybody is against you because member X dislikes you
- and he has a postcount of a million
- and is an admin which is why everybody listens to him
- and stole your twinkies

...

we should put this in the "Trolling" section on the BIP wiki perhaps? it contains good stuff for general trolling too

[Cain]

Absolutey, its nice to have it all written down somewhere.

Also Google "site: crookedtimber.org John Emerson" (without the "") if you want to see some high quality work.

[President Television]

Um, the agricultural revolution IS technology.

Well, yes... this is the generally accepted paradigm... I guess I'm trying to jump out of it for a sec, and picture a technological society which did not rely on sedentary agriculture from the onset. 

Not possible.  No surplus food = no surplus population = no room or time for innovators beyond those which offer immediate benefits for gaining food.

This the obvious answer and probably the correct one... I'm just trying to ask the old anthropological questions from different angles.  I'm aware of the no time argument, but I'm not sure it has proven correct under cultural analysis of modern day hunter-gatherer societies.  They have arguably more free time than we "civilized" prats.  Could you clarify the "no room" part tho?  Thx.

Well, here's the thing: They have more "free time", but that free time happens to be spent looking out for themselves and their community. They aren't employed, no, they don't have a legal or financial obligation to work as we do, but for them it's something much more direct. For them, it's survival. You don't have much time to be innovative if you're busy watching the kids, looking out for predators and rival tribes, gathering enough food and water to get by, etc.
Agriculture is the cause and effect of societal development. It's a necessary part of the mechanism. And sadly, that mechanism happens to be heirarchal for now. I think hippie communes and the like, as Cramulus suggested, are the best we can have right now in terms of non-heirarchies. The thing is, though, societies like that aren't concerned with technological and societal development so much as personal spiritual development. I think perhaps that's a better basic philosophy. Perhaps.

[Vaudeville Vigilante]

The monkey brain is hard wired for authority, leadership, and dom/sub relationships, so it's an uphill battle. I think there may one day be pockets of people who are socialized to get over some parts of their monkey programming. But these will be oasises. Like the hippie communes of the 60s, they can only exist in isolation, and are only a utopia for those that buy in. That being said, it sounds like a nice place to live.

I don't think that model of living will ever gain primacy because there's too much chaos built into humans. I consider myself an upstanding dude, but I can only imagine how I'd act if there were no cops around to regulate my behavior.

Primacy, yeah; see: Huxley's Island
But remember that this wasn't really "wired" into monkey programming until about 10,000 years ago.  Historically speaking, homo sapiens were non-hierarchical by nature for a dramatically larger part of our existence; i.e, hunter-gather societies.

[Vaudeville Vigilante]

Just call me VV, double V, or fuckface, or whatever.

2) I think it'll happen naturally as our race matures. Disconnecting "from the chain-of-command mode of thinking and living" is a natural and logical next step.

I like your optimism.  

That's not optimism. Optimism is knowing that for a long time before that happens I'll be able to sit back and watch monkeys beating each other over the head with increasingly heavy sticks

TRUE.  May as well have fun while we can.

[Triple Zero]

Cain, I'll copy/paste some bits later on then, perhaps others still want to add to it.

First I worried about maybe it's not smart to put all these hot buttons out there explicitly, but then, trolls are pushing them anyway, and if we couldnt deal with it we're not worthy, possibly it helps us ignoring these red flags better as well.