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GREYFACE LIVES! (And not where you think!)

Started by Prelate Diogenes Shandor, November 04, 2009, 09:30:08 PM

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Prelate Diogenes Shandor

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 04, 2009, 10:04:52 PM

Quote from: Prelate Diogenes Shandor on November 04, 2009, 09:30:08 PM
•   Trying To Help Control The Human Population by Not Reproducing

TRANSLATION:  There aren't enough people in the world.  Everywhere should be like China, with people shoulder to shoulder.

You missed my point on this one entirely.

I agree that there are too many people in the world, HOWEVER I am cognizant of the fact that the idea that people can supposedly solve the problem by choosing (for that specific reason) not to reproduce contains an INHERENT BIOLOGICAL FLAW. Physical traits are not the only type of traits that can be inherited, mental and emotional traits and dispositions can be inherited as well, and if everybody who was concerned about the size of the human population suddenly decided not to reproduce, then any heritable dispositions that could contribute to caring about the size of the human population would be significantly weakened in the human gene pool and, within a couple of generations, people would be even more predisposed to recklessly reproduce, and would quickly more than cancel out the dent put in the population by those who chose not to reproduce.

Personally, I believe that other methods are in order called for to control the world's human population. The same short-term benefits (but much less long-term negative impact) could be achieved without trying to regulate our own reproduction, by instead convincing the world's various governments to DE-REGULATE products and practices that cause infertility, that way the genes removed from the gene pool might actually be ones that deserve to be...
Praise NHGH! For the tribulation of all sentient beings.


a plague on both your houses -Mercutio


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrTGgpWmdZQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVWd7nPjJH8


It is an unfortunate fact that every man who seeks to disseminate knowledge must contend not only against ignorance itself, but against false instruction as well. No sooner do we deem ourselves free from a particularly gross superstition, than we are confronted by some enemy to learning who would plunge us back into the darkness -H.P.Lovecraft


He who fights with monsters must take care lest he thereby become a monster -Nietzsche


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHhrZgojY1Q


You are a fluke of the universe, and whether you can hear it of not the universe is laughing behind your back -Deteriorata


Don't use the email address in my profile, I lost the password years ago

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: Prelate Diogenes Shandor on November 05, 2009, 01:35:09 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 04, 2009, 10:04:52 PM

Quote from: Prelate Diogenes Shandor on November 04, 2009, 09:30:08 PM
•   Trying To Help Control The Human Population by Not Reproducing

TRANSLATION:  There aren't enough people in the world.  Everywhere should be like China, with people shoulder to shoulder.

You missed my point on this one entirely.

I agree that there are too many people in the world, HOWEVER I am cognizant of the fact that the idea that people can supposedly solve the problem by choosing (for that specific reason) not to reproduce contains an INHERENT BIOLOGICAL FLAW. Physical traits are not the only type of traits that can be inherited, mental and emotional traits and dispositions can be inherited as well, and if everybody who was concerned about the size of the human population suddenly decided not to reproduce, then any heritable dispositions that could contribute to caring about the size of the human population would be significantly weakened in the human gene pool and, within a couple of generations, people would be even more predisposed to recklessly reproduce, and would quickly more than cancel out the dent put in the population by those who chose not to reproduce.

Personally, I believe that other methods are in order called for to control the world's human population. The same short-term benefits (but much less long-term negative impact) could be achieved without trying to regulate our own reproduction, by instead convincing the world's various governments to DE-REGULATE products and practices that cause infertility, that way the genes removed from the gene pool might actually be ones that deserve to be...

And you were the one bitching about eugenics.   :lulz:

SMUDGY PEOPLES FROM UNFURNISHED COUNTRIES DESERVE TO BE STERILIZED!

:lulz:
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Kai

Somebody is confusing nature and nurture.

No no, don't waste your time trying to backpeddle out of that one. Concern for the size of the human population isn't a heritable trait, its a learned behavior. There are enough kids around needing homes and just waiting for the right parents to come along and give them the right sort of upbringing. No need to bring the "intelligent people go extinct" argument into play, and not only because it's bullshit.

Not that I'm mandating birth control or chastising expectant parents.
If there is magic on this planet, it is contained in water. --Loren Eisley, The Immense Journey

Her Royal Majesty's Chief of Insect Genitalia Dissection
Grand Visser of the Six Legged Class
Chanticleer of the Holometabola Clade Church, Diptera Parish

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: Kai on November 05, 2009, 02:01:15 AM
Somebody is confusing nature and nurture.

No no, don't waste your time trying to backpeddle out of that one. Concern for the size of the human population isn't a heritable trait, its a learned behavior. There are enough kids around needing homes and just waiting for the right parents to come along and give them the right sort of upbringing. No need to bring the "intelligent people go extinct" argument into play, and not only because it's bullshit.

Not that I'm mandating birth control or chastising expectant parents.

No, Kai, it's that filthy dirty smudgy people need to be tricked into sterilizing their mud selves.

:lulz:
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Cainad (dec.)

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 05, 2009, 02:00:18 AM
And you were the one bitching about eugenics.   :lulz:

SMUDGY PEOPLES FROM UNFURNISHED COUNTRIES DESERVE TO BE STERILIZED!

:lulz:
Quote from: Kai on November 05, 2009, 02:01:15 AM
Somebody is confusing nature and nurture.

No no, don't waste your time trying to backpeddle out of that one. Concern for the size of the human population isn't a heritable trait, its a learned behavior. There are enough kids around needing homes and just waiting for the right parents to come along and give them the right sort of upbringing. No need to bring the "intelligent people go extinct" argument into play, and not only because it's bullshit.

Not that I'm mandating birth control or chastising expectant parents.

I tried to say things along these lines, but my brain got clogged with the stupid it tried to process in the meantime.

Kai

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 05, 2009, 02:02:29 AM
Quote from: Kai on November 05, 2009, 02:01:15 AM
Somebody is confusing nature and nurture.

No no, don't waste your time trying to backpeddle out of that one. Concern for the size of the human population isn't a heritable trait, its a learned behavior. There are enough kids around needing homes and just waiting for the right parents to come along and give them the right sort of upbringing. No need to bring the "intelligent people go extinct" argument into play, and not only because it's bullshit.

Not that I'm mandating birth control or chastising expectant parents.

No, Kai, it's that filthy dirty smudgy people need to be tricked into sterilizing their mud selves.

:lulz:

You know, I only caught the eugenics argument when you pointed it out.  :lulz:
If there is magic on this planet, it is contained in water. --Loren Eisley, The Immense Journey

Her Royal Majesty's Chief of Insect Genitalia Dissection
Grand Visser of the Six Legged Class
Chanticleer of the Holometabola Clade Church, Diptera Parish

Richter

Quote from: Prelate Diogenes Shandor on November 04, 2009, 09:30:08 PM
Many of you are so-called Discordians and SubGenii are probably still blundering and toiling under the  :fnord: Curse of Greyface* :evilmad: (adherence to or application of unnecessary and/or destructive order and control, see footnote) without even knowing it. Many you may think you have freed yourself from his curse, but most of you are WRONG, you poor deluded fools... He lurks where you least expect it! he bends the knees and crushes the mind yet none behold the hand that smites! Beware of destructive order! Fear Him!


:roflcake: All of the following are of the Curse of Greyface (although some may be unexpected),  
All of them Being either: Order imposed for no reason, or situations where chaos would work just as well (or better), Or else Order of an actually destructive nature:

•   Spaying or Neutering Your Pets− In fact, any attempt to control thepe population. They talk about how many unwanted animals ae euthanized in animal shelters each year, but that is a problem which arises not from animal population, but from attempts to control it. We could make the number of unwanted animals euthanized each year drop instantly to zero if we just shut down the animal shelters and admitted to ourselves that there is no more need to control the population of stray cats and dogs than there is to control the populations or squirrels or songbirds , nor is there any reason other than unmitigated hubris to believe that animals of any sort are or even could be significantly worse off without us in their lives.
•   Yardwork and Lawn Care− You probably spend a great deal of your time inside and most likely so do your neighbors. If you really have business just hanging around on your lawn all the time (or if your neighbors have business staring at it all hours of the day and night) instead of either doing something inside or else going somewhere more interesting than a stupid boring residential lawn (such as a public pool, or a video arcade, or a skate park, or (if you live near the seashore) the beach or the boardwalk, or a bowling alley, or the park) then by all means, keep your yard tidy, but if not, I really do not see what good it will do for you. Plus its bad for the environment, because not only do most lawnmowers have very low fuel−efficiency (and large "Carbon−Footprints" to use a hackneyed and banal popular cliché), and not only are chemical yard treatments bad for local wildlife (especially frogs and salamanders and other cute littkle amphibians), but also, cutting the grass reduces the grass's avaible photosynthetic surfaces, and that means less photosysnthesis and thus less carbon dioxide removed from the air and less oxygen given off
•   Trying To Help Control The Human Population by Not Reproducing− The fact of the matter is, that in the long run, all that this will accomplish is to reduce the overall occurrences of any genetic predisposition towards having a social conscience within the human gene pool. If you care enough about overpopulation to want to do something about it, then you should try to stop other people from reproducing.
•   Abortion− This is a clearly a form of destructive order. Furthermore, it lends itself to the advancement of eugenics−related ideas; Weeding out those who are "disordered" before they can even be born. While this may have some valid upshots it is stlll far, far worse than the alternative; I'd sooner see this species devolve into barely animate wads of slime than let its gene−pool be controlled by what the pinks and the mediocretin normals think is and isn't "Disordered"
•   Tidying the House− This is only a good thing to do if it actually makes things easier to use; If you've memorized and gotten used to your possessions locations where they are strewn about the house, and if the places where things are used are far from the places where they are stored, and if you can still move around the house, then the small aesthetic benefit gained from having a tidy home is probably (and in fact, almost definitely) far more trouble than its worth.


:FFF:



*For those of you unfamiliar with the parable of Greyface and the/his curse, I will reiterate it here. Greyface, (whether or not he literally exists or not, doesn't matter) is a far more potent figure of negative slack than Satan or even NHGH and Hyper-NHGH, and it is important to know what he is and what you are up against:

   Thousands of years ago, a malcontented hunchbrain by the name of Greyface, got it into his head that the universe was as humorless as he, and he began to teach that play was sinful because it contradicted the ways of Serious Order. ``Look at all the order around you,'' he said. And from that, he deluded honest men to believe that reality was a straightjacket affair and not the happy romance as men had known it.
     It is not presently understood why men were so gullible at that particular time, for absolutely no one thought to observe all the disorder around them and conclude just the opposite. But anyway, Greyface and his followers took the game of playing at life more seriously than they took life itself and were known even to destroy other living beings whose ways of life differed from their own.
     The unfortunate result of this is that mankind has since been suffering from a psychological and spiritual imbalance. Imbalance causes frustration, and frustration causes fear. And fear makes for a bad trip. Man has been on a bad trip for a long time now.
     It is called THE CURSE OF GREYFACE.
     To choose order over disorder, or disorder over order, is to accept a trip composed of both the creative and the destructive. But to choose the creative over the destructive is an all-creative trip composed of both order and disorder. To accomplish this, one need only accept creative disorder along with, and equal to, creative order, and also willing to reject destructive order as an undesirable equal to destructive disorder.
     The Curse of Greyface included the division of life into order/disorder as the essential positive/negative polarity, instead of building a game foundation with creative/destructive as the essential positive/negative. He has thereby caused man to endure the destructive aspects of order and has prevented man from effectively participating in the creative uses of disorder. Civilization reflects this unfortunate division.
     POEE proclaims that the other division is preferable, and we work toward the proposition that creative disorder, like creative order, is possible and desirable; and that destructive order, like destructive disorder, is unnecessary and undesirable.
     Seek the Sacred Chao -- therein you will find the foolishness of all ORDER/DISORDER. They are the same!



HERESEY.

A fine an noble deed, to come before an assembled group, point out what actions they are taking which might indeed detract from the spirit of their beliefs.  When exactly did any of us, myself included, tell you EXACTLY what we believed?

With your execution, explaination, and stumbling exposition, however, you counsel only failure.

Primarily, your chosen central dichotomy of order / disorder breaks down before the very parable you site.  They are the same, by your own admission.  Therefore, what you call order, is NOT some grand, suppressive scheme, but simply Information.  Consider that word for a moment; information.  In - formation.  Facts, ideas, or forms arranged in a repeating, recognizable pattern.  Hardly a great greyface conspiracy, since it exists from certain subatomic structures, through vaster expressions of geometry (fractal, curved, and Euclidean) in nature, up through planetary and interstellar motions.  If you wish to be so tiresome as to label this a product of our teaching and upbringing, then kindly observe learning behaviors of wild animals.  

If you are opposed to information, patterns, or personally expressing them or attempting to alter states you otherwise consider "natural", then I invite you, in the name of Eris, to cease your patterns of eating or drinking.  Should you have the fortitude, breathing and heart rate are other options, but you may find them quite reflexive.    

Secondly, if your own take on Eris or Dobbs inspire you to breed recklessly around uncontrolled domesticates in an unmaintained house, then please do so downwind of me, and away from major population centers.  You'll have visitors eventually, but don't let the Dave Koresh tell you how to receive or entertain such guests.

The nihilists might take this better.  I have no time for people who purport to explain my own beliefs to me.

-In service,
             Inquisitor Richter

Quote from: Eater of Clowns on May 22, 2015, 03:00:53 AM
Anyone ever think about how Richter inhabits the same reality as you and just scream and scream and scream, but in a good way?   :lulz:

Friendly Neighborhood Mentat

Prelate Diogenes Shandor

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 05, 2009, 02:00:18 AM
Quote from: Prelate Diogenes Shandor on November 05, 2009, 01:35:09 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 04, 2009, 10:04:52 PM

Quote from: Prelate Diogenes Shandor on November 04, 2009, 09:30:08 PM
•   Trying To Help Control The Human Population by Not Reproducing

TRANSLATION:  There aren't enough people in the world.  Everywhere should be like China, with people shoulder to shoulder.

You missed my point on this one entirely.

I agree that there are too many people in the world, HOWEVER I am cognizant of the fact that the idea that people can supposedly solve the problem by choosing (for that specific reason) not to reproduce contains an INHERENT BIOLOGICAL FLAW. Physical traits are not the only type of traits that can be inherited, mental and emotional traits and dispositions can be inherited as well, and if everybody who was concerned about the size of the human population suddenly decided not to reproduce, then any heritable dispositions that could contribute to caring about the size of the human population would be significantly weakened in the human gene pool and, within a couple of generations, people would be even more predisposed to recklessly reproduce, and would quickly more than cancel out the dent put in the population by those who chose not to reproduce.

Personally, I believe that other methods are in order called for to control the world's human population. The same short-term benefits (but much less long-term negative impact) could be achieved without trying to regulate our own reproduction, by instead convincing the world's various governments to DE-REGULATE products and practices that cause infertility, that way the genes removed from the gene pool might actually be ones that deserve to be...

And you were the one bitching about eugenics.   :lulz:

SMUDGY PEOPLES FROM UNFURNISHED COUNTRIES DESERVE TO BE STERILIZED!

:lulz:

Ok, two problems with this

1.) Who said anything about other countries? I'm talking about everywhere!...In fact, ESPECIALLY the USA! If we replaced all of our power plants with nuclear power plants we could eliminate our dependency on foreign and domestic oil.

2.) What I'm proposing is not eugenics because eugenics is a methodical and non-random, deliberate process (usually intended to warp future generations toward some cockeyed pink ideal of "Perfection"). Radiation and Thimerisol, on the other hand, don't know and don't care who the hell you are, where your family is from, or what your religion is.

Quote from: Kai on November 05, 2009, 02:01:15 AM
Somebody is confusing nature and nurture.

Many traits contain an element of both. The 'either-or' dichotomy of "Nature Vs. Nurture" is largely discredited within the scientific community (or at least that's what all of my college professors and textbooks* told me).

To give an example, one can have a genetic predisposition towards alcoholism, but unless someone gives then the idea to take that first drink and get hooked that predisposition won't matter. Similarly, a person with no predisposition towards alcoholism

By the way, I am fully cognizant of the fact that the alcoholism is a completely different and much simpler trait than wanting to control the population, but this is proof of concept.

I do not personally know of any studies as to whether or not there is an element of heredity to concern about overpopulation, but if you can point me to one that addresses this issue, is peer reviewed, and has a reasonably large sample size then if it supports your view that there is no element of heredity to it, then I will retract my point. until then, my point stands.



*Well, at least all the ones that had reason to bring up the matter (that is to say, it didn't come up in Organic Chemistry or Calculus, but in the classes concerning human or higher mammal behavior it was made clear that Nature Versus Nurture was a flawed dichotomy).
Praise NHGH! For the tribulation of all sentient beings.


a plague on both your houses -Mercutio


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrTGgpWmdZQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVWd7nPjJH8


It is an unfortunate fact that every man who seeks to disseminate knowledge must contend not only against ignorance itself, but against false instruction as well. No sooner do we deem ourselves free from a particularly gross superstition, than we are confronted by some enemy to learning who would plunge us back into the darkness -H.P.Lovecraft


He who fights with monsters must take care lest he thereby become a monster -Nietzsche


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHhrZgojY1Q


You are a fluke of the universe, and whether you can hear it of not the universe is laughing behind your back -Deteriorata


Don't use the email address in my profile, I lost the password years ago

the other anonymous

Quote from: Prelate Diogenes Shandor on November 05, 2009, 03:00:30 AM
If we replaced all of our power plants with nuclear power plants we could eliminate our dependency on foreign and domestic oil.

Two words: Waste disposal.

Two more words: Foreign soiled.

Quote from: Prelate Diogenes Shandor on November 05, 2009, 03:00:30 AM
2.) What I'm proposing is not eugenics because eugenics is a methodical and non-random, deliberate process (usually intended to warp future generations toward some cockeyed pink ideal of "Perfection"). Radiation and Thimerisol, on the other hand, don't know and don't care who the hell you are, where your family is from, or what your religion is.

I happen to support eugenics... but only if I get to decide who lives and dies. :evil:

As for nature v. nurture, I posit that we're all big bags of chemicals, free will is an illusion, and thus nurture is a product of nature. I also posit that reality is subjective and what we consider nature is an illusion created by how we were nurtured.

-toa,
just having fun

I never thought somebody would go so far as to suggest that tidying ones house is a bad thing.
This, alone, is truly retarded.

The Wizard

Shandor, really? Even if you're arguments were well thought and made sense, don't go preaching them like an asshole. By doing so, you're just proving that you completely missed the point of a lot of this shit.
Insanity we trust.

Kai

Quote from: the other anonymous on November 05, 2009, 03:10:01 AM
Quote from: Prelate Diogenes Shandor on November 05, 2009, 03:00:30 AM
2.) What I'm proposing is not eugenics because eugenics is a methodical and non-random, deliberate process (usually intended to warp future generations toward some cockeyed pink ideal of "Perfection"). Radiation and Thimerisol, on the other hand, don't know and don't care who the hell you are, where your family is from, or what your religion is.

I happen to support eugenics... but only if I get to decide who lives and dies. :evil:

As for nature v. nurture, I posit that we're all big bags of chemicals, free will is an illusion, and thus nurture is a product of nature. I also posit that reality is subjective and what we consider nature is an illusion created by how we were nurtured.

-toa,
just having fun

I think you're both retarded. No kids for you!
If there is magic on this planet, it is contained in water. --Loren Eisley, The Immense Journey

Her Royal Majesty's Chief of Insect Genitalia Dissection
Grand Visser of the Six Legged Class
Chanticleer of the Holometabola Clade Church, Diptera Parish

The Good Reverend Roger

Shandor should be the FIRST to be sterilized.  Stupidity such as this should only happen once.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: Prelate Diogenes Shandor on November 05, 2009, 03:00:30 AM
1.) Who said anything about other countries? I'm talking about everywhere!...In fact, ESPECIALLY the USA!

Great.  Lead by example.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Rumckle

 :lulz: :lulz:
THIS IS BRILLIANT.

Clearly PDS you should start, and tell us how it works out for you. I'm a scientist dammit, and I want some evidence that a larger study will be worth my time and resources.

Quote from: Kai on November 05, 2009, 03:24:03 AM

I think you're both retarded. No kids for you!

:lulz:
I vote Kai gets to decide how this eugenics thing shall work.
It's not trolling, it's just satire.