So, the economist and time agree: It's about fucking time to LEGALISE IT

[LMNO]

So, your point is that you need pot in order to think a certain way, because it's "easier".



Watching TV is "easier" than reading a book, too.  Oh, Real Housewives of Atlanta is on.

Later, kids.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

I don't smoke to do magic to my brain. I smoke because:

A) I like it.
B) It helps settle my stomach when IBS flares up
C) I like it.
D) It helps a lot with the regular migraines I get (perscription medicine also works, but leaves me strung out)
E) I like it.

[Z³]

So, your point is that you need pot in order to think a certain way, because it's "easier"

That's not really my point at all. That may be a somewhat disingenuous paraphrasing of DRB's point, but not mine.

[Captain Utopia]

So, your point is that you need pot in order to think a certain way, because it's "easier".



Watching TV is "easier" than reading a book, too.  Oh, Real Housewives of Atlanta is on.

Later, kids.

And throwing your kids off the balcony is "easier" than raising them to adulthood. And, and robbing a bank is "easier" than earning an honest wage. And, and, driving your in-labour wife to the hospital in a car is "easier" than giving her a piggy-back ride for ten miles.

But, you know, nice fallacy.

[AFK]

And I paraphrase Leary, RAW, Burroughs, and Kesey: "Anything your brain can do on drugs, your brain can do off drugs."

Its not like any of them would have endorsed drugs in any way.

As for Burroughs

The ill effects of marijuana have been grossly exaggerated in the U.S. Our national drug is alcohol, we tend to regard the use of any other drug with special horror. Anyone given over to these alien vices deserves the complete ruin of his mind and body. People believe what they want to believe without regard for the facts. Marijuana is not habit forming. I have never seen evidence of any ill effects from moderate use. Drug psychosis may result from prolonged or excessive use

When was this written?  Nevermind the fact he is completely wrong.  It is habit forming.  Addiction is addiction whether it is physical or psychological.  

[AFK]

Yeah, thanks for missing the point, Z.

Your point was that drugs are inherently unnecessary in terms of managing our brains?
This may be so, but sometimes they can be a useful tool for doing so.
& if the pharmaceutical companies get to do this, why cant I?

The pharmaceutical companies make the drugs.  (Ideally)Your doctor tells you whether or not you should be taking them depending on your situation.

[Z³]

And I paraphrase Leary, RAW, Burroughs, and Kesey: "Anything your brain can do on drugs, your brain can do off drugs."

Its not like any of them would have endorsed drugs in any way.

As for Burroughs

The ill effects of marijuana have been grossly exaggerated in the U.S. Our national drug is alcohol, we tend to regard the use of any other drug with special horror. Anyone given over to these alien vices deserves the complete ruin of his mind and body. People believe what they want to believe without regard for the facts. Marijuana is not habit forming. I have never seen evidence of any ill effects from moderate use. Drug psychosis may result from prolonged or excessive use

When was this written?  Nevermind the fact he is completely wrong.  It is habit forming.  Addiction is addiction whether it is physical or psychological.  

Well that's an area where I happen to disagree with the dominant paradigm, but thats besides the point. Also, I don't want to get sucked into debating the opinion of one writer as if its anything beyond that writers opinion, which was posted in the context of demonstrating the opinion of that particular writer... for example.

[Z³]

Yeah, thanks for missing the point, Z.

Your point was that drugs are inherently unnecessary in terms of managing our brains?
This may be so, but sometimes they can be a useful tool for doing so.
& if the pharmaceutical companies get to do this, why cant I?

The pharmaceutical companies make the drugs.  (Ideally)Your doctor tells you whether or not you should be taking them depending on your situation.

So you're saying that the pharmaceutical companies have no influence over teh doctors?

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

And I paraphrase Leary, RAW, Burroughs, and Kesey: "Anything your brain can do on drugs, your brain can do off drugs."

Its not like any of them would have endorsed drugs in any way.

As for Burroughs

The ill effects of marijuana have been grossly exaggerated in the U.S. Our national drug is alcohol, we tend to regard the use of any other drug with special horror. Anyone given over to these alien vices deserves the complete ruin of his mind and body. People believe what they want to believe without regard for the facts. Marijuana is not habit forming. I have never seen evidence of any ill effects from moderate use. Drug psychosis may result from prolonged or excessive use

When was this written?  Nevermind the fact he is completely wrong.  It is habit forming.  Addiction is addiction whether it is physical or psychological.  

Marijuana can be habit forming for some people, so can food, television, exercise and the Internet.

Of course,  a lot of people make use of all of those things without them being addicted....

[LMNO]

Y'all's lack of subtlety and nuance is pretty damn funny.

[AFK]

Yeah, thanks for missing the point, Z.

Your point was that drugs are inherently unnecessary in terms of managing our brains?
This may be so, but sometimes they can be a useful tool for doing so.
& if the pharmaceutical companies get to do this, why cant I?

The pharmaceutical companies make the drugs.  (Ideally)Your doctor tells you whether or not you should be taking them depending on your situation.

So you're saying that the pharmaceutical companies have no influence over teh doctors?

There is a reason I added "(Ideally)".  Sure, the pharma companies have influence with doctors.  They have also gone a long way to influence the public through advertising.  There has been a marked increase in prescriptions filled in the past decade after the regulations around TV advertising for Rx drugs were reinterpreted.  They've managed, quite adeptly I might add, to sway the public and convince them that THEY should be determining what drug they should be taking and telling their doctor.  The patient-doctor relationship has been effectively flipped on its head when it comes to medications.  

But, when you have a good doctor, that doctor is going to determine how best to manage your pain.  The doctor who has a medical background to make the proper choice.  You, the patient, should not be making that choice.  

[fomenter]

fair enough. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on whether or not that would be worth the increased personal liberty for adults.

not being snarky either, if you're going to take the position that anything is worth decreasing the personal liberty of adults, protection of children is about the only reason I can think of that has any merit whatsoever.

You posited it before as a choice between liberty and security.

Another way to think about it is a choice between sacrificing the futures of a portion of our youth for the pleasure of a portion of our adults.  

its not just about pleasure though is it? i know i wont benefit i don't smoke pot, i am probability not the only one arguing the pro legalization/decriminalization who is a non smoker..

and how do I sacrifice anything? i am not suggesting the kids be abandoned or that they are not as important as you believe they are, i am in agreement with you there. i have said that with any change of the law, improving funding for programs and education are necessary

the question is do the harms you see "sacrificing youth" (even worst case scenario funding and education remaining the same) outweigh the loss of liberty (something i hold very very dear) plus all the other costs of prohibition that we have been listing? i suspect they don't, prohibition and the violence and corruption the black market creates, the cost to the tax payer arresting and prosecution and prisons just to name a few, are a high cost to pay, especially if the sacrifice you talk about can be headed off by the funding and education we both would suggest (not saying it would be easy to get or that it wouldn't require a fight but i believe it could be done)

[East Coast Hustle]

So, your point is that you need pot in order to think a certain way, because it's "easier".



Watching TV is "easier" than reading a book, too.  Oh, Real Housewives of Atlanta is on.

Later, kids.

thank you for adding some much needed snark and disingenuousness to this otherwise interesting and insightful conversation!

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I don't smoke to do magic to my brain. I smoke because:

A) I like it.

You could have stopped right there.

[AFK]

And I paraphrase Leary, RAW, Burroughs, and Kesey: "Anything your brain can do on drugs, your brain can do off drugs."

Its not like any of them would have endorsed drugs in any way.

As for Burroughs

The ill effects of marijuana have been grossly exaggerated in the U.S. Our national drug is alcohol, we tend to regard the use of any other drug with special horror. Anyone given over to these alien vices deserves the complete ruin of his mind and body. People believe what they want to believe without regard for the facts. Marijuana is not habit forming. I have never seen evidence of any ill effects from moderate use. Drug psychosis may result from prolonged or excessive use

When was this written?  Nevermind the fact he is completely wrong.  It is habit forming.  Addiction is addiction whether it is physical or psychological.  

Marijuana can be habit forming for some people, so can food, television, exercise and the Internet.

Of course,  a lot of people make use of all of those things without them being addicted....

And if marijuana was a television show, a form of exercise, or an internet website, it would be legal.  But it's a chemical that can be introduced into the body that plays with brain chemistry and when the brain is still developing, it has the potential to make an impact on that developing brain that the others, generally, do not.  However, that said, I have read some interesting research around theories that video gaming at an early age has the capacity to mimic some of the brain chemistry that occurs when someone uses drugs.  The pushing of a button that rewards the pleasure center of the brain, and how that could predispose a kid to seeking out other things to fulfill that pleasure later in life.  But this is pretty new territory and still needs to be explored.