Yeah, LMNO, so this Patrick Henry freak...

[Captain Utopia]

It sounds like an interesting and worthy experiment. Certainly days when I refuse to run firefox are amongst my most productive.

But other than forcibly preventing people from watching TV, I don't see any incentive which would make them change their habits voluntarily.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

It sounds like an interesting and worthy experiment. Certainly days when I refuse to run firefox are amongst my most productive.

But other than forcibly preventing people from watching TV, I don't see any incentive which would make them change their habits voluntarily.

Well, we should just make it illegal and have a TV Czar to spend billions on jailing people for having a TiVo (paraphernalia, you know...)

[Cain]

I might have some ideas on operationalisation of parts of this.

With any luck I'll get something down on paper (or, alternatively, MS Word) this weekend.  Maybe.  Soon, anyway.

[Freeky]

You know, I suddenly had a brief moment of inspiration about what to do about getting people off their couch, atleast for a little while.

Does anyone remember that retarded ass craptacular show on the History channel, it was something like The Experiment or something? It was where these people were put in an abandoned area of California and were filmed as they tried to survive in a 'post apocalyptic' society, where they had to forage and find safety and shelter and things.

Well, I had a thought. What do people like to do? Imitate the things they see. And there were people on their TVs who were attempting to eke out an existence that didn't involve a couch, or a TV or the internet. If we took this idea, and added in a bit of LARPery, organize events often enough, and told them that this sort of thing is very fun indeed, you should try it too, or you're not like us, and if you're not like us, you're like THEM, who knows what might happen?

Edit: I should probably say that the reason I think it would work is because I AM a sheep, and it would work on me cuz it's about emulating something already been done on TV, and I don't want to be one of THEM, and would probably never ask who they are.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Edit: I should probably say that the reason I think it would work is because I AM a sheep, and it would work on me cuz it's about emulating something already been done on TV, and I don't want to be one of THEM, and would probably never ask who they are.

They are the ones that own and operate the dark satanic mills that manufacture hell on Earth.  They are the pill-pushers, the demagogues that call themselves journalists, the mean cop, the office Nazi, the neighbor that leaves your party early so they can call the police about the noise.  They are Freedom™.  They are terrorists under the bed, hair-shirt punishment freaks, the occupants of the "amen pew", the jackass that didn't let you into traffic on purpose, the gun-grabbers, the ones who do it "for the children", the soccer mom who screams for us to drop bombs on someone else's kids.

Who are we?

[Freeky]

They are the ones that own and operate the dark satanic mills that manufacture hell on Earth.  They are the pill-pushers, the demagogues that call themselves journalists, the mean cop, the office Nazi, the neighbor that leaves your party early so they can call the police about the noise.  They are Freedom™.  They are terrorists under the bed, hair-shirt punishment freaks, the occupants of the "amen pew", the jackass that didn't let you into traffic on purpose, the gun-grabbers, the ones who do it "for the children", the soccer mom who screams for us to drop bombs on someone else's kids.

Who are we?

Sheep don't ask that question either, as long as the 'we' in question don't seem like they want to uproot 'normalcy' and routine.

I, however, speculate that 'we' as in the people on this board could be the equivalent of a group of wolves that are planning an attack on the shepard. Maybe. But then, I'm just a sheep who's stumbled into the crowd here, so I can't say for certain.

[LMNO]

Edit: I should probably say that the reason I think it would work is because I AM a sheep, and it would work on me cuz it's about emulating something already been done on TV, and I don't want to be one of THEM, and would probably never ask who they are.

They are the ones that own and operate the dark satanic mills that manufacture hell on Earth.  They are the pill-pushers, the demagogues that call themselves journalists, the mean cop, the office Nazi, the neighbor that leaves your party early so they can call the police about the noise.  They are Freedom™.  They are terrorists under the bed, hair-shirt punishment freaks, the occupants of the "amen pew", the jackass that didn't let you into traffic on purpose, the gun-grabbers, the ones who do it "for the children", the soccer mom who screams for us to drop bombs on someone else's kids.

Who are we?

We're the control people.  The In Charge people.  The people who put Ends before Means.  The Living Large, Taking Charge people.  The people who invented phrases like "acceptable losses".  "Collateral damage".  "Mutually assured destruction". We're the requirement people.  We're the sorting process.  The ladder.  We're the big hen who pecks the smaller hen. We're the smaller hen, looking for something to peck.  We're the Conditional Charity people. The Regulatory people.  The Authority™ people.

Who are we?

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Edit: I should probably say that the reason I think it would work is because I AM a sheep, and it would work on me cuz it's about emulating something already been done on TV, and I don't want to be one of THEM, and would probably never ask who they are.

They are the ones that own and operate the dark satanic mills that manufacture hell on Earth.  They are the pill-pushers, the demagogues that call themselves journalists, the mean cop, the office Nazi, the neighbor that leaves your party early so they can call the police about the noise.  They are Freedom™.  They are terrorists under the bed, hair-shirt punishment freaks, the occupants of the "amen pew", the jackass that didn't let you into traffic on purpose, the gun-grabbers, the ones who do it "for the children", the soccer mom who screams for us to drop bombs on someone else's kids.

Who are we?

We're the control people.  The In Charge people.  The people who put Ends before Means.  The Living Large, Taking Charge people.  The people who invented phrases like "acceptable losses".  "Collateral damage".  "Mutually assured destruction". We're the requirement people.  We're the sorting process.  The ladder.  We're the big hen who pecks the smaller hen. We're the smaller hen, looking for something to peck.  We're the Conditional Charity people. The Regulatory people.  The Authority™ people.

Who are we?

We're the snarling bumper-to-bumper dog men who honk our horns in traffic jams.  We're the fat guy on a plane berating a young mother for her crying infant.  We're the jackass who puts his seat right back into your lap.  We're the crooked sheriff, the bent politician, the smarmy bureaucrat that smiles when he says "no".  We're your neighbors, your school teachers, your bus driver.

Who are we?

[LMNO]

We're the Satisfied people.  The content people.  The people who see no need to go into the streets, because the couch is so comfortable.  We're the receptive people, the observers.  The people who believe what our parents, our teachers, our politicians, our priests tell us.  We're the people who do what we're told.  Who hate what we're told to hate.  We're the single-file people.  The sit up straight people. The status quo people.

Who are we?

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

We're the people that like to write words. We're the people that like to think a post on a forum replaces action and supporting your troops in blog comments makes you a Real American. We're the people that have abandoned the community we live in, with their different opinions, different habits, different beliefs and we've replaced it with a virtual community that is virtually us. They agree with our views and they believe in our beliefs and they support our heroes and hate our enemies. We're the future, the future of everything. Our laws WILL pass (everyone I know already supports it!), our beliefs will prevail (I haven't talked to a person in months that disagrees with that!!), our Truth is the Truth and that other virtual community over there that disagrees are virtually imbeciles.

Who are we?

[Cain]

I have an idea, something similar to Safaris, with a touch of HIMEOBS, that might be worth using as a test bed.  While the internet might not be the same as IRL efforts, it makes a great sounding board.  Lemme think this through and propose it.

Have you ever read FM-3-24?  That's the Petraeus-Amos counterinsurgency guide.  As I'm sure you're aware, COIN is just insurgency with a bigger budget and on the other side since, as the manual and several others (Mao etc) make quite clear, insurgency is about cultivating relationships.

So, does the insurgency model fit us?  I think it can.  We are a small, but tight-knit group with high morale, generally speaking, and a taste for unconventional methods.  Our "enemies", for want of a better term, are large and monolithic, with a taste for the conventional.

Therefore, we could pick up a few tips from this bit of military theory.  As you might know, the USA in Iraq approached former enemies with open hands, offering them not only protection, but also goods in return for cooperation.  Whether or not it worked in the long run is immaterial, it worked in the immediate, probably because it is very similar to the method of organisation the Mafia uses (based around primarily protection and secondly on access to goods - acting as middle men and go-betweens).

John Robb has a very interesting series of posts he called "Insurgency Standing Orders" on his global guerrillas blog, of how to create an open-source insurgency and keep it working. I can link to them in full, but I will summarize below:

1. Break enemy networks (keep vital networks, such as communication working).
2. Generate black economies.
3. Virtualize your organization (assemble groups for specific jobs, then disband them).
4. Repitition is more important than scale
5. Cooperate, don't compete.  Do this by basing both groups on common platforms that reduce costs.
6. Don't fork the insurgency
7. Minimalist rulesets work best
8. Self-replicate, both technologically and through social engineering
9. Share or copy everything that works
10. Innovations should be released early and often.  Doesn't matter if it doesn't work, hopefully someone else can figure it out.
11. Don't supply basic services out of your own pocket - free ride on those provided by others. 

Some don't apply to us that much, but others obviously have more of an impact.

The basic idea is that we infiltrate a site, maybe somewhat openly, maybe not depending on local hostility...we do our little song and dance, we show off a bit, prove we can be "good posters" by following the rules and providing content....but we leave a few people behind to cultivate the relationship.  Say someone on the site mentions they are doing research.  One of the left-behinds can contact me, I can direct them to free downloads of useful e-books, they can take them back, and then offer them up to the person.  We create good will, while all the time steadily but subtly working the site so that they understand where we are coming from, what we think is fucked up and how, if at all, we can go about solving it.

Sound like the bare bones of plan?

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Cain, that's amazing.  Let me re-read it when my head is a little clearer, though.

[Cain]

No problem.  Of course, some aspects of the insurgency model don't apply per se, because we're not looking to insurge against the sites we'll be going to.

But, well, its like...I was reading somewhere, I can't remember where now, that one of the reasons Al-Qaeda did so well in Warizistan and Afghanistan was because it was there for a long time, it acted as go-between via the small, isolated communities and the outer world, it bought guns bitches bling and more bling, and often intermarried its members among leaders of tribal groups.

Equally, in Anbar Province in Iraq, American Marines approached former Sunni insurgents and tribal leaders who were being targeted by Al-Qaeda in Iraq.  They offered protection (serious protection - one tribal leader had an embedded tank by his house, frequent helicoptor patrols and an UAV watching his place to prevent attacks) provided medicine, access to arms etc

So that's one half.  Building the relationship.  Protecting a site from its enemies (if it has any), getting involved, mucking in and helping people out.  It's not so much about calling in debts at a later date as creating the feeling of gratitude and wishing to return the favour.  It shouldn't be explicit.

Then comes the second half.  Once we have several of these going on, and we've explained a little about what we think, what worries us etc and start a few discussions about how to possibly deal with it, we try to structure the discussion in such a way that we get as many people involved as possible.  Little groups can split off and experiment, etc etc it might even be possible to link all several groups together and make them aware of each other's existence, especially if they're in roughly the same position (thanks to our own social engineering).

If that makes sense.

[Cain]

I might try and write up an imaginary case study, to make it more explicit.  Later though.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

That might be tricky in a troll sort of situation though...

Most sites would see us as Al-Queda rather than COIN I think. As such we would need to win hearts and minds, rather than jetting dirt in their faces. I'll be interested to see how your case study lays this out!!