You can vote for Lie of the Year!

[Triple Zero]

How the fuck is "Death Panels" saying preventative care saves money?

[Requia ☣]

How the fuck is "Death Panels" saying preventative care saves money?

Huh?  Who said that?

[Triple Zero]

did you read the thread?

How the fuck is saying preventative care saves money lying?

[Requia ☣]

No, I saw that, I responded to that, but he never mentioned Death Panels.

'Preventative care saves money' is one of the lie of the year poll options.

[LMNO]

How the fuck is saying preventative care saves money lying?

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/sep/09/barack-obama/obama-says-preventive-care-saves-money-it-doesnt/

"But when analyzing the effects of preventive care on total spending for health care, it is important to recognize that doctors do not know beforehand which patients are going to develop costly illnesses. To avert one case of acute illness, it is usually necessary to provide preventive care to many patients, most of whom would not have suffered that illness anyway. . . Preventive care can have the largest benefits relative to costs when it is targeted at people who are most likely to suffer from a particular medical problem; however, such targeting can be difficult because preventive services are generally provided to patients who have the potential to contract a given disease but have not yet shown symptoms of having it."

And a study conducted by researchers from the American Diabetes Association, American Heart Association and the American Cancer Society concluded that, while interventions to prevent cardiovascular disease would prevent many strokes and deaths, "as they are currently delivered, most of the prevention activities will substantially increase costs."

So, the consensus is that, while preventive care will almost certainly save lives, it won't reduce government spending on health care. As a result, we rate Obama's statement False.

[AFK]

I can understand why Obama would use that line.  It does seem intuitive that prevention saves money.  Because we think of the overweight people with plaque build-up in their arteries, chowing down on a Big Mac and think, "Well, we'd be better off if people like THAT took better care of themselves."  And indeed, on individual levels, it would save money if people took better care of themselves. 

Personally, that is where I think prevention is most effective and has the most promise.  Education.  Getting people to make the decisions on their own to live healthier lives. 

Now, that said, prevention CAN save money in certain areas.  An example would be my line of work.  There are studies that show for every 1$ we spend on substance abuse prevention, we save something like $20.  But that isn't just health care costs, that's also law enforcement costs, prison costs, etc., etc., Also, increased worker productivity.  Healthier workers are more productive, and that could have some ripple effects.  But, that can be challenging to quantify. 

[Jenne]

I'm pretty sure it's safe to say that preventative medicine in SOME areas will save money in the long run, and cost money in all areas in the short run.  Prevention is usually a long-term time and money saver, and I've rarely seen it applied otherwise.

[LMNO]

Apaprently, while it can save the individual money, the collective cost for preventative care for everyone is not necessarily a net savings.

Example:

If preventable diseases affect 20% of the population, and cost $X in total,

And if it costs $Y to apply preventative care to 100% of the population,

X is not always more than Y.

[Jenne]

That's why I qualified it with SOME.

[LMNO]

Yes.  I was simply continuing my point for Slank.

[Triple Zero]

ooohhhh then I misunderstood him.

[Iason Ouabache]

The breast cancer screening guidelines is a very good example of this. The screenings definitely save lives by catching breast cancers early... however, in early age groups you end up with a lot more false positives than you do true positives. And of course you don't know which ones are real tumors until you do an expensive (and painful) biopsy. That's why it's better to only screen women in high risk groups.

LOL, Bayesian!

[Iason Ouabache]

And to celebrate winning Lie of the Year, Palin does a victory lap!

http://twitter.com/SarahPalinUSA/status/6937132618

...merged bill may b unrecognizable from what assumed was a done deal:R death panels back in?what's punishment 4not purchasing mandated HC?

[Cain]

I love how she implies Obama will mandate a death panel for people who don't buy insurance.

[Shibboleet The Annihilator]

FUCK YEAH! BRING ON THE DEATH PANELS!

Also, as far as preventative care goes, I guess that would depend on how it was implemented. Getting people to take better care of themselves should be a relatively inexpensive thing to do.

"Uh, dude, you're fat. Stop eating this shit or you're going to die. Seriously."

Cost: FREE!