There Has Been An Error!

[Kaienne]

Not true.  One of the programs I run, the one that trains the teenagers to be good listeners, has a section on identifying and referring kids with intent to commit suicide.  What we found in our research while putting together the curriculum is that 4 out of 5 teens who attempt suicide give very clear warnings.  I don't know what the figures are for adults but my guess is they would be very similar.  It is actually a rare thing when someone who commits suicide didn't give warnings ahead of time.  The problem is, those warning signs go unrecognized.  Most people who are suicidal don't really want to die.  They want to get rid of emotional pain.  And that's why they give warning signs.  They want someone to help them, but they don't know how to get it otherwise.  Most of these signs show up in the week or two preceding their attempt. 

It's true; when I attempted suicide, it was because I was too broken and afraid to continue living through what I was living through (kicked out of home, daily panic attacks, living with constant transphobia in a closed-minded town, just had a nervous breakdown and lost my job in the process and was now facing eviction and homelessness just as the weather was starting to get cold), not because I actually wanted to die. I had been giving really subtle tells for a long time but never actually out and said it, until the night of when I wrote my suicide letter (asking people not to hate me, telling them that I still loved them and that I was sorry, etc.).

I was there too.  And my Mom and Dad didn't necessarily see the signs either.  But, I don't blame them.  I mean, there is really a pathetic amount of education and awareness raising when it comes to suicide prevention.  Nobody wants to talk about it.  It's just one of those things our society doesn't want to address in any kind of meaningful way.

Yes. Absolutely. It's fucking ridiculous. People are so actively engaged in trying to pretend that suffering isn't there that they refuse to look at it when it comes up. I've been doing a lot of counseling for youth with issues surrounding depression, self-harm, and suicide lately, and it's fucking opened my eyes, and it's taught me a fucking lot about myself. I had one girl whose parents told her they didn't care if she tried it. And so in addition to all of the internal trauma and pain these people are going through, they're also treated like they're invisible- and that is something that has a fucking profound effect on one's mental/emotional stability, I don't care who you are. I have a friend who is literally the most intelligent and educated person I know, and is the embodiment of logic and reason, and when my roommate recently started pretending he didn't exist because he started dating my roommate's ex, he got fucked up over it. Imagine what that does to someone who doesn't understand theirself, doesn't understand others, doesn't understand society, and is desperate for someone- anyone- to help them.

And of course, it doesn't help that most people don't know how to effectively help. You k now how sometimes someone will say something to you, and it will be meant to be helpful, but it's really, really not? When I started dealing with my own issues involving recently starting cutting again, I wound up in a really, really dark place because- even though it seemed totally normal to me, I've been self-injuring for 10 years now- everyone I spoke to treated it like a crisis and kept telling me to stop and to figure out ways to stop as fast as possible. Not having had a grasp on my own motivations and intentions at the time, other people telling me it was a crisis actually made me think that it really was a crisis.

[East Coast Hustle]

I was there too.  And my Mom and Dad didn't necessarily see the signs either.  But, I don't blame them.  I mean, there is really a pathetic amount of education and awareness raising when it comes to suicide prevention.  Nobody wants to talk about it.  It's just one of those things our society doesn't want to address in any kind of meaningful way.  Fuck, look at all the soldiers who are coming back from Afghanistan and Iraq who are killing themselves.  It's clear as fuck to me that there is a hole the size of Texas when it comes to suicide prevention in the military.  And with the money they have?  

I'm telling you, if and when these wars finally wrap up, we're going to have massive mental health issues in this country, and there is no infrastructure to deal with it.  I'm getting pissed just thinking about it.  And this is the shit they're cutting back as they balance budgets.  

Yeah. A friend of mine is in the military and he was talking about how a LOT of soldiers this time around are coming home with PTSD. He was driving home one night and his girlfriend and his mother ended up behind him by chance and were following him home. He saw them following, made several fucked up turns and, when they continued to follow, stopped the car, grabbed his hand-gun, got out of the car, crouched low and pointed it at the car as he was yelling because he was so freaked out by being followed. Nothing happened aside from scaring the piss out of everyone involved but he was saying that it's a fairly common problem among soldiers these days.

I'm sure I'll get piled on for this, but...

YOU (not literally you, but, you know...) VOLUNTEERED TO BE A SOLDIER, FOR FUCK'S SAKE. DID YOU MISS THE PART OF THE JOB DESCRIPTION THAT SAID "MAY COME WITH EXPOSURE TO BOMBS, BULLETS, AND PISSED-OFF NATIVES TRYING TO KILL YOUR ASS WITH ANYTHING THEY CAN FIND"? DID YOU THINK IT WAS GONNA BE LIKE WHEN YOU USED TO PLAY HALO IN YOUR MOM'S BASEMENT? "BOO-FUCKING-HOO, THOSE MEAN AFGHANS TRIED TO BLOW ME UP SO NOW THAT I'M SAFELY BACK IN BUMFUCK, TEXAS I'M'A ACT ALL CRAZY AND SHIT AND GET FREAKED OUT EVERYTIME I HEAR A SIREN OR SEE SOMEONE WALKING BEHIND ME ON THE SIDEWALK." BUCK THE FUCK UP AND STOP BEING A WHINY PARANOID PUSSBAG WHO CAN'T SEE HIS OWN SHADOW WITHOUT JUMPING. JESUS TITTYFUCKING CHRIST, IT'S SAD HOW FAR THE STANDARDS OF OUR PROFESSIONAL MILITARY HAVE DROPPED IN ITS UNSUSTAINABLE ATTEMPT TO FIND MORE IED SPONGES. THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU CAN'T FIND A WORTHWHILE MILITARY ENDEAVOR AND HAVE TO SETTLE FOR SOME LAME-ASS "WAR ON TERROR" OR "EXCUSE TO INSTALL YOUR OWN PUPPETS AS PRESIDENT OIL-FIELD MANAGER". YOU GET THE SOLDIERS YOU DESERVE.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I'm sure I'll get piled on for this, but...

YOU (not literally you, but, you know...) VOLUNTEERED TO BE A SOLDIER, FOR FUCK'S SAKE. DID YOU MISS THE PART OF THE JOB DESCRIPTION THAT SAID "MAY COME WITH EXPOSURE TO BOMBS, BULLETS, AND PISSED-OFF NATIVES TRYING TO KILL YOUR ASS WITH ANYTHING THEY CAN FIND"? DID YOU THINK IT WAS GONNA BE LIKE WHEN YOU USED TO PLAY HALO IN YOUR MOM'S BASEMENT? "BOO-FUCKING-HOO, THOSE MEAN AFGHANS TRIED TO BLOW ME UP SO NOW THAT I'M SAFELY BACK IN BUMFUCK, TEXAS I'M'A ACT ALL CRAZY AND SHIT AND GET FREAKED OUT EVERYTIME I HEAR A SIREN OR SEE SOMEONE WALKING BEHIND ME ON THE SIDEWALK." BUCK THE FUCK UP AND STOP BEING A WHINY PARANOID PUSSBAG WHO CAN'T SEE HIS OWN SHADOW WITHOUT JUMPING. JESUS TITTYFUCKING CHRIST, IT'S SAD HOW FAR THE STANDARDS OF OUR PROFESSIONAL MILITARY HAVE DROPPED IN ITS UNSUSTAINABLE ATTEMPT TO FIND MORE IED SPONGES. THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU CAN'T FIND A WORTHWHILE MILITARY ENDEAVOR AND HAVE TO SETTLE FOR SOME LAME-ASS "WAR ON TERROR" OR "EXCUSE TO INSTALL YOUR OWN PUPPETS AS PRESIDENT OIL-FIELD MANAGER". YOU GET THE SOLDIERS YOU DESERVE.

It's not that simple, RCH.  This isn't a case of some emo kids whining because people shot at them.  It's a problem based on physiological reactions to stresses that nobody can adequately explain, let alone prepare for.  Sort of like a panic attack...while you're having one, you know there's nothing actually wrong, but good luck telling your body that.

PTSD - or battle fatigue or shell shock or whatever you want to call it - is real, and was recognized as real back in 1918, long before mental illness became a fad, and long before overdiagnosis was a way of making money.

The standards of our military haven't dropped.  The stresses on the normal people that make up the military have increased.  This is nothing new, it just gets talked about now.

[East Coast Hustle]

Meh. I still think it basically boils down to a lack of mental and emotional self-mastery, which sort of seems like it oughtta be something that's taught to new recruits and/or screened for in the case of people with "tells" for being predisposed to PTSD.

I also think that this applies, in a larger context, to society at large. I know it sounds like oversimplifying but really, people just need to learn to deal with their bullshit sans melodrama.

[Kaienne]

Meh. I still think it basically boils down to a lack of mental and emotional self-mastery, which sort of seems like it oughtta be something that's taught to new recruits everyone, ever and/or screened for in the case of people with "tells" for being predisposed to PTSD.

I also think that this applies, in a larger context, to society at large. I know it sounds like oversimplifying but really, people just need to learn to deal with their bullshit sans melodrama.

Fix'd. I think the problem though is that no one (save for perhaps a select few monks living up on mountaintops) actually fully attains mastery of the self; and, the path by which they got there may not actually work with other peoples' sets and settings. Also I'm totally with you on board with the sans melodrama bit; I'd like you to show me someone who doesn't. Anxiety and angst : anger and rage : ridicule and incredulity. Everyone exaggerates their emotions, people just have different emotions; for every person there is to say "I don't get these fuckin' emo kids, what is wrong with them?" there's an emo kid to say "I don't get these fuckin' cynical bastards, what is wrong with them?"
Normalcy is an illusion projected by surrounding oneself with like minds.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Meh. I still think it basically boils down to a lack of mental and emotional self-mastery, which sort of seems like it oughtta be something that's taught to new recruits and/or screened for in the case of people with "tells" for being predisposed to PTSD.

I also think that this applies, in a larger context, to society at large. I know it sounds like oversimplifying but really, people just need to learn to deal with their bullshit sans melodrama.

I'd buy that, if the problem was restricted to low ranking individuals.

[maphdet]

I have to agree with RCH, when you enlist in the armed services you are making the decision and know the history of what can and does happen.

Not saying I do not have sympathy for them, just that they did make their own decision to get themselves into some fucked up shit.

But I do not think we can dump the people who have been in the armed services in the same group as citizens. The service folks have been trained and knew before hand what was going to be ahead of them. There should be some sort of reconditioning program (if one is not already in place) for service folk who have to come back to being a "citizen".

OH and most agreed with RWHN on the suicide bit-the signs are always there. Unfortunately, sometimes you can't be there all the time preventing the inevitable to happen.

[.]

Save money on razor blades and cheer yourself up at the same time: buy a kitten!

You'll get just as cut up, and the kittens savage antics will provide hours of entertainment.

A REAL emo would buy a goldfish.  Then when it dies a few weeks later, they can sit in the dark for hours writing poems about mortality while listening to MCR.

I always cried when my goldfish died.

[.]

PTSD isn't just limited to soldiers either, but more common.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I have to agree with RCH, when you enlist in the armed services you are making the decision and know the history of what can and does happen.

Because an 18 year old is assumed to have studied 101 years of military psychology?

[East Coast Hustle]

probably not, but making an ill-informed decision does not absolve someone of the responsibility of dealing with the consequences of their decision.

[NotPublished]

There are also those that do not have much of a choice/can't see many other options, I know of a kid who was working with his Dad - but their Uncle fucked both the father and the son over, with no means of money - he had to join the army, and now he's over at South Korea.

[Hangshai]

Most of the people in the wars right now are national guardsmen who only wanted to do 'weekends + 2 weeks a year'.  Camping trips where you get to blow shit up and you get paid for it.  NONE of them were expecting 3 tours in a row, no matter what you try and say they knew walking in.

There was a dude in my hometown who committed suicide, 2 actually, when I was a teenager.  Both were very sudden.  One was a good friend of mine.  He had schizophrenia and he liked to do speed.  When he did speed, it would make his schizophrenia kick in really bad.  But he was still one of the coolest motherfuckers around.  His name was Dustin Peters.  He was one of the best skateboarders around, too.  Well, his girlfriend dumped him or something happened, they fought, and he was found a couple days later at a park ODed on pills.  No warning, no one really knew.   He wasn't even mopey or anything, it just happened very suddenly.

[East Coast Hustle]

that sounds like it might have been more of an accidental death than an intentional suicide, unless he left a note.

[Hangshai]

No note.  But, believe it or not there is a dusty peters junior.  His girlfriend found out she was pregnant shortly after his funeral.  Crazy, huh?  The kid is well into his teens now, and if he's anything like his dad I feel sorry for the kids mom...  I use to wake up WAY to early on Saturdays with this guy sitting in the corner of my room, staring at me.  As soon as I would open my eyes, he would say, "Lets go skate, Ill buy you a beer...".  How do you say no to that?  I never knew how he got past my mom, either.