A rant : Magic (possibly Spirituality to)

[NotPublished]

Well on the train to work today, ideas just started splurging forth.

My reasoning behind this rant : People are turning to magic to achieve their goals. This is just going to breed stupidity and leave people ultimately powerless over their own actions - assuming they are relying on 'non-mundane' forces.

I tried to break it down as much as possible;

Analysis : Magic is the manipulation of energy to manifest a result

Of course, the act of manipulation as I see it, is refering to things such as

• walking to the fridge
• turning on a light switch
• waving hello

These all involve an intent, a process and a result.

However, it is wrong to assume that if your intent is to have food and that by forces of Magic (letting go of all Logic) and that just by thinking about food, it will end up in your hands - when the fridge is easily accessable. That is stupidty. Illogical if you will.

Magic is the one and same as science, it begins with a hypothesis (intent, reasons, aim), it has apparatus (tools), the method and of course the results; (Also if you want a quick reflection, aconclusion) - perhaps Magic is a terrible word to use, it has connotations attached to it which make me cringe. Anyhow, everything has a reason for being done.

It is easy to argue that symbolicly Magic helps to by pass certain self-imposed barriers. Similar to hypnosis.

Though, once the belief sets in that it's possibly to modify external events by a mere utterance of words, waving arcane tools around or by thinking about it - this is very faulty and dangerous. It shows that a person is helpless, out of resouces and has done the worst sin - They have accepted that they can do nothing about it. Oh, they might argue that they were thinking about it, but its just a cop-out way of taking a share of the reward that they did nothing to achieve but think about it. Perhaps it is a boost of their Ego. Maybe by that boost of their ego, they are able to do something else.

Of course, there are always going to be shit situations, and maybe by turning to faith - it will get them through, some people are just not ready to shatter the illusions of a soul.

As I said earlier, perhaps the word Magic is awful to use as it has too much history attached to it. Though, it provides an important lesson to those who step into the depth of madness itself, a new view on life. I know when I speak of Magic - I am talkign about life, when I say I am talking to another spirit. I am really talking to another person.

The lure of having a belief that one is practicing Magic - is that it has its own illusions making a person feel alive and in control of all things around them. But the danger here is that it is just a self-delusion, that by turning to belief it makes things ok in life. Its ok to suffer and put up with crap, because you believe your in control over it.

When is it safe, to assume that by chanting a series of invocations will make it rain to save your harvest? Would you be better off to get out of there, unfortunantely abandoning all you've worked for - but live to fight for another day. What does repeating a series of words ever do for anyone? Waste time?

I have taken on the stance that I hold no beliefs. I see that belief is just a tool, to get something else done. I have no reason to hold onto it. To insinuate a belief, is something that isn't certain. I would rather just stick with 'if it works, it works.' .. Much more convenient, no hassle of dogma. And it works!

In short : No point being difficult, magic is as simple as living life.

Hum, I think this is one of my most coherent rants I've made.

(I am beggining to understand that all 'masters of magic' have come to a similar conclusion - its just bullshit and mostly done for theatrics )


eta : Hmmm .. I'm starting to think that this can be applied to most 'Spirituality' to, I think the best Spiritual Life is just living life itself.

[The Johnny]

Your definition of magic is too broad.

Science is NOT magic.

[NotPublished]

So that would mean you have a definition, what is yours?

The similarities are there, Science can do some pretty awesome stuff. Magic is a science itself the way I see it.

[LMNO]

The horrendous grammatical error in the subject line of your post has caused me to not actually read anything you've written.

[The Johnny]

So that would mean you have a definition, what is yours?

The similarities are there, Science can do some pretty awesome stuff. Magic is a science itself the way I see it.

Magic is proto-science; in other words, theres a cause-effect correlation that is not explained rigurously yet.

If i tased a native from an island they would say i have "magical powers".

The ancient herbal medicine was achieved thru "magical" attributions (derived from trial and error) to plants, which later on were explained by biochemistry.

[LMNO]

No.


Magic is a series of actions intended to cause a non-local effect, with no substantive reasoning or proof as to how or why it works, or even an above-average success rate.

You may apply the scientific method to magic, like Crowley did, but because magic does not bother with provable explanations, it can't be science.

[The Johnny]

Analysis : Magic is the manipulation of energy to manifest a result
accessable.

OMG LOOK AT THE UNICRON MAKING MAGICK

[Template]

This is a pretty terrible rant.  The definition of magic used therein is shit.  Using "energy" in the definition and seeming to never define it loses my interest but fast.  To be fair, PD.COM tends not to be a good place to discuss magic at all.  There might be a good thread or five to be made, on the nature of magic.  But you -You're not the only one- assume there's a problem, name it presumptuously, and clatter away at he keyboard.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Uncle Al says:

I) DEFINITION.

    Magick is the Science and Art of causing Change to occur in conformity with Will.

    (Illustration: It is my Will to inform the World of certain facts within my knowledge. I therefore take "magickal weapons", pen, ink, and paper I write "incantations"—these sentences—in the "magickal language" ie, that which is understood by the people I wish to instruct I call forth "spirits", such as printers, publishers, booksellers and so forth and constrain them to convey my message to those people. The composition and distribution of this book is thus an act of Magick by which I cause Changes to take place in conformity with my Will.)

    In one sense Magick may be defined as the name given to Science by the vulgar.

    II) POSTULATE.

    ANY required change may be effected by the application of the proper kind and degree of Force in the proper manner, through the proper medium to the proper object.

    (Illustration: I wish to prepare an ounce of Chloride of Gold. I must take the right kind of acid, nitro-hydrochloric and no other, in a vessel which will not break, leak or corrode, in such a manner as will not produce undesirable results, with the necessary quantity of Gold: and so forth. Every change has its own conditions.

    In the present state of our knowledge and power some changes are not possible in practice we cannot cause eclipses, for instance, or transform lead into tin, or create men from mushrooms. But it is theoretically possible to cause in any object any change of which that object is capable by nature and the conditions are covered by the above postulate.)

[LMNO]

Yes, but Crowley was a hack blowhard who would do anything to validate his bullshit.

[Mangrove]

Uncle Al says:

I) DEFINITION.

    Magick is the Science and Art of causing Change pointless arguments to occur in on conformity PD.com with Will.

   

Fixt

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Yes, but Crowley was a hack blowhard who would do anything to validate his bullshit. fuck with the British.

Fixt

[Captain Utopia]

I think there is a good comparison between magic and our current understanding of memes. If you look at "the one sentence meme-bomb thread", you'll see plenty of experimentation. To what end? To make someone stop and think? It's as vague a goal as making someone "better", and experimenting with herbs and advice to achieve it.

But it's not an entirely futile endeavour at all, because by setting up a vague goal we encourage a wide range of potential solutions - we invoke emergence. That, I think, is the only way to tackle a problem too complex for a single mind to fully comprehend - never mind solve.

So I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the benefits which can come from applying a higher goal to many of your day-to-day actions and interactions, I just think talking about spirits and non-scientific energy or forces, to be somewhat of a dead-end.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

In fact, if we truly dig into Crowley we find that Magic is the art of fucking with other peoples head. His Mindfuck is still spawning little automatons today. His antics still confuse the Greyface and his books are still considered Holy by some... He would laugh his ass off at the modern spiritual movements, and fleece them for cash and cute girls and boys.

Crowley is an example for us all.

It is disgusting to have to spend one's life jetting dirt in the face of the British public
in the hope that in washing it they may wash off the acrid grease of their
commercialism, the saline streaks of their hypocritical tears, the putrid perspiration
of their morality, the dribbling slobber of their sentimentality and their religion. And
they don't wash it!

[LMNO]

So I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the benefits which can come from applying a higher goal to many of your day-to-day actions and interactions, I just think talking about spirits and non-scientific energy or forces, to be somewhat of a dead-end.

If you carefully parse the above comments, you will see we are criticizing the scientific jargon that some magicians use to validate their beliefs, not about the efficacy of certain types or theories of magic.