Magic: Who thinks they can do it, and why otherwise intelligent people buy it.

[The Johnny]

Has anybody added argumentative smart-ass hairsplitters and nitpickers to the list of people who believe in magic (or at any rate believe in a certain specific and limited sense provided that there's an argument to be had by doing so)? Because i fall into that category.

Many practices which are commonly labeled as "magic" actually DO work, albeit not necessarily by the supernatural means that the sorceror claims them to work by. For example, it is a widely accepted fact that a Voodoo Curse CAN indeed kill you (provided that you sincerely believe that it can kill you). The actual mechanism by which death is caused, however, is not the intervention of vengeful spirits, but rather through psychological manipulation of the victim, resulting a combination of illness induced by the physiological symptoms of extreme stress and potentially self-destructive changes in emotion and behavior.
(see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voodoo_death and http://ajph.aphapublications.org/cgi/content/full/92/10/1593)

THAT IS NOT MAGIC

THAT IS BEING A GULLIBLE NOOB

AND IF BEING A GULLIBLE NOOB MAKES YOU A DEAD NOOB

GOOD

I think JohNyx may be my favorite new poster of 2009.

Ive learned to appreciate you too.

Not that I don't hate you or anything, it's just that I hate all the other new users so much more.

What do you mean? You dont think the pinealism brought forth by our newcomer brethen brings new life to the forum? It has taught me so many things i couldnt had come up on my own.

[Golden Applesauce]

Has anybody added argumentative smart-ass hairsplitters and nitpickers to the list of people who believe in magic (or at any rate believe in a certain specific and limited sense provided that there's an argument to be had by doing so)? Because i fall into that category.

Many practices which are commonly labeled as "magic" actually DO work, albeit not necessarily by the supernatural means that the sorceror claims them to work by. For example, it is a widely accepted fact that a Voodoo Curse CAN indeed kill you (provided that you sincerely believe that it can kill you). The actual mechanism by which death is caused, however, is not the intervention of vengeful spirits, but rather through psychological manipulation of the victim, resulting a combination of illness induced by the physiological symptoms of extreme stress and potentially self-destructive changes in emotion and behavior.
(see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voodoo_death and http://ajph.aphapublications.org/cgi/content/full/92/10/1593)

No.
Just no.

Psychology does not kill people. Ever.  

Don't you think that if it were Fact people would be using this stiff to, oh I dunno, cure fucking cancer. Or MS? Or AIDS?

Psychology kills people all the time.  There is a correlation between suicide, and, say, depression.  Continual stress plays havoc with your immune system.  A psychological addiction to a physically harmful activity can be lethal.  Impaired judgment can lead people to foolishly risk their lives, or make a normally risky (but manageable) activity much more dangerous.

And yes, remaining in good spirits does increase your chances of survival with any number of potentially lethal conditions.  Placebos work, too, when they're done right.

[The Johnny]

We are psycho-somatic beings... the mind can affect the body functions, just as the body can affect the minds function...

And although one shouldnt rely on psychological will to cure cancer, it sure can help in a matter of degree.

In other words, if you psychically give up on life, it WILL affect your immune system; the percentage that this affects the condition, do, is very variable, and i think, unmeasurable in a quantitative scale.

[Faust]

Your Heart Has Just Stopped.

[NotPublished]

I wish

[The Johnny]

Your Heart Has Just Stopped.

Lol, yeah righ-gañkldddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhuuuuunngggghhh

[Golden Applesauce]

We are psycho-somatic beings... the mind can affect the body functions, just as the body can affect the minds function...

And although one shouldnt rely on psychological will to cure cancer, it sure can help in a matter of degree.

In other words, if you psychically give up on life, it WILL affect your immune system; the percentage that this affects the condition, do, is very variable, and i think, unmeasurable in a quantitative scale.

The effect of stress on the immune system is measurable on a quantitative scale.  "Giving up on life" is a little trickier, however.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Your Heart Has Just Stopped.

Tease.

[Salty]

Has anybody added argumentative smart-ass hairsplitters and nitpickers to the list of people who believe in magic (or at any rate believe in a certain specific and limited sense provided that there's an argument to be had by doing so)? Because i fall into that category.

Many practices which are commonly labeled as "magic" actually DO work, albeit not necessarily by the supernatural means that the sorceror claims them to work by. For example, it is a widely accepted fact that a Voodoo Curse CAN indeed kill you (provided that you sincerely believe that it can kill you). The actual mechanism by which death is caused, however, is not the intervention of vengeful spirits, but rather through psychological manipulation of the victim, resulting a combination of illness induced by the physiological symptoms of extreme stress and potentially self-destructive changes in emotion and behavior.
(see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voodoo_death and http://ajph.aphapublications.org/cgi/content/full/92/10/1593)

No.
Just no.

Psychology does not kill people. Ever.  

Don't you think that if it were Fact people would be using this stiff to, oh I dunno, cure fucking cancer. Or MS? Or AIDS?

Psychology kills people all the time.  There is a correlation between suicide, and, say, depression.  Continual stress plays havoc with your immune system.  A psychological addiction to a physically harmful activity can be lethal.  Impaired judgment can lead people to foolishly risk their lives, or make a normally risky (but manageable) activity much more dangerous.

And yes, remaining in good spirits does increase your chances of survival with any number of potentially lethal conditions.  Placebos work, too, when they're done right.

I started thinking about that after I posted it, that it was too broad a statement.

[Faust]

We are psycho-somatic beings... the mind can affect the body functions, just as the body can affect the minds function...

And although one shouldnt rely on psychological will to cure cancer, it sure can help in a matter of degree.

In other words, if you psychically give up on life, it WILL affect your immune system; the percentage that this affects the condition, do, is very variable, and i think, unmeasurable in a quantitative scale.

The effect of stress on the immune system is measurable on a quantitative scale.  "Giving up on life" is a little trickier, however.

OK so we go from "voodoo can kill you"
to "voodoo can give you cancer"

[The Johnny]

We are psycho-somatic beings... the mind can affect the body functions, just as the body can affect the minds function...

And although one shouldnt rely on psychological will to cure cancer, it sure can help in a matter of degree.

In other words, if you psychically give up on life, it WILL affect your immune system; the percentage that this affects the condition, do, is very variable, and i think, unmeasurable in a quantitative scale.

The effect of stress on the immune system is measurable on a quantitative scale.  "Giving up on life" is a little trickier, however.

Hyper-religious fanatics that get stigmatas is an physical manifestation of "believing hard enough".

[The Johnny]

We are psycho-somatic beings... the mind can affect the body functions, just as the body can affect the minds function...

And although one shouldnt rely on psychological will to cure cancer, it sure can help in a matter of degree.

In other words, if you psychically give up on life, it WILL affect your immune system; the percentage that this affects the condition, do, is very variable, and i think, unmeasurable in a quantitative scale.

The effect of stress on the immune system is measurable on a quantitative scale.  "Giving up on life" is a little trickier, however.

OK so we go from "voodoo can kill you"
to "voodoo can give you cancer"

If you believe a voodoo curse can hurt you, it will.

Gullibility/Suggestion - not the voodoo itself, but the response that evokes from you

[Faust]

We are psycho-somatic beings... the mind can affect the body functions, just as the body can affect the minds function...

And although one shouldnt rely on psychological will to cure cancer, it sure can help in a matter of degree.

In other words, if you psychically give up on life, it WILL affect your immune system; the percentage that this affects the condition, do, is very variable, and i think, unmeasurable in a quantitative scale.

The effect of stress on the immune system is measurable on a quantitative scale.  "Giving up on life" is a little trickier, however.

OK so we go from "voodoo can kill you"
to "voodoo can give you cancer"

If you believe a voodoo curse can hurt you, it will.

Gullibility/Suggestion - not the voodoo itself, but the response that evokes from you

If I had some asshole waving chicken bones and cats menstruation at me  my stress levels would rise ->More susceptible to cancer.
Its just that the practitioners cause (magic) is not the actual cause, its the actual physical significance of the act.
For instance leaving a dagger on someones pillow to give them bad dreams, same deal, no magic. The actual Physical significance of what happened would effect my mental state and my nerves. I don't think gullibility has anything to do with this, its merely cause and effect.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

If I had some asshole waving chicken bones and cats menstruation at me my stress levels would rise I'd make him accidentally the whole thing.

Fixed for "The Terror of Dublin".

[NotPublished]

its merely cause and effect.

Exactly that! Anything else is just overly worded and confusing for the sake of confusing