No subject was filled in. Social Psychology and Existence.

[Brotep]

 

Until someone came along who was hard-wired to kick your ass.

[Jasper]

But despite this privilege we're also very discontent with life.  We find ourselves searching for some kind of transcendence or epiphany, something "higher" to aspire to.

I'm reasonably content with life right now.  I reject this.

I think you're missing my point, which was that human nature tends to lead us to seek some kind of experience that transcends mundane reality, or to come in contact with higher beings such as gods or spirits.  Mysticism especially reflects this human urge.   I am sure many people here have experienced the divine or the cosmically profound, or are currently seeking it out.  Why do people do this?  The world works without it, and only humans do it so far as we know, so I characterize it as part of the human condition. 

Part of the condition in question is our identity.  The first thing an amnesiac might ask is, "Who am I?"

Maybe.  Is it really that big a deal, though?  Identity is that thing you're constantly acting out.

A stupid consequence of consumerism is the prevalent idea that individuality is made up of petty distinctions.  John likes vanilla ice cream.  Betty likes rocky road.  It's so strange that they would get together--they come from two different worlds!

It is far from normal for people to have a concrete, stable, and accurate perception of themselves.  Whatever your idiosyncrasies, they do not disprove my point.  Again, I call the identity trip a part of the human condition for a number of reasons you can surely infer.

Another aspect of our human condition, in a yet wider scope, is the meaning of life.  One can find hints about the meaning of life in advertisements, because sadly we do not live in a world of reasoned and thoughtful consumption.  For instance, I recently noticed that the vending machine near the library advertises "Life Water", which is bottled water with vitamins, extracts, and cartoon lizards.  The water is purported to, as the advert said, "Enlighten.  Energize.  Challenge.  Calm."  That sounds amazing.

Personally, I prefer unchallenging water.

Advertising language is all about taking transitive verbs and making them intransitive.  Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.  What is really being peddled is a story about happiness in a bottle.  You're not buying the product, you're buying the story.

I can't really help you here.  You're focusing on my exposition and ignoring the points I'm trying to illustrate.  The water advert was just illustrative of how advertisers characterize the meaning of life and try to sell it to us.

The idea of arriving at a meaning of life scientifically doesn't make any sense to me.

The idea of using mysticism, poetry, and drum circles to arrive at a meaning of life makes no sense to me.   

What is your thinking?  You make the implicit assumption that science can never model and predict human experiences.  It can by no means become a hard science like chemistry or physics, but we can build a representative theory of human experience by studying it and applying what we know of humans and their experiences, especially though psychological science.

[Brotep]

But despite this privilege we're also very discontent with life.  We find ourselves searching for some kind of transcendence or epiphany, something "higher" to aspire to.

I'm reasonably content with life right now.  I reject this.

I think you're missing my point, which was that human nature tends to lead us to seek some kind of experience that transcends mundane reality, or to come in contact with higher beings such as gods or spirits.  Mysticism especially reflects this human urge.   I am sure many people here have experienced the divine or the cosmically profound, or are currently seeking it out.  Why do people do this?  The world works without it, and only humans do it so far as we know, so I characterize it as part of the human condition.

I will agree that it is human nature to tell stories.  Anything more seems overly specific and culturally biased.

Part of the condition in question is our identity.  The first thing an amnesiac might ask is, "Who am I?"

Maybe.  Is it really that big a deal, though?  Identity is that thing you're constantly acting out.

A stupid consequence of consumerism is the prevalent idea that individuality is made up of petty distinctions.  John likes vanilla ice cream.  Betty likes rocky road.  It's so strange that they would get together--they come from two different worlds!

It is far from normal for people to have a concrete, stable, and accurate perception of themselves.  Whatever your idiosyncrasies, they do not disprove my point.  Again, I call the identity trip a part of the human condition for a number of reasons you can surely infer.

Which point was that?

Another aspect of our human condition, in a yet wider scope, is the meaning of life.  One can find hints about the meaning of life in advertisements, because sadly we do not live in a world of reasoned and thoughtful consumption.  For instance, I recently noticed that the vending machine near the library advertises "Life Water", which is bottled water with vitamins, extracts, and cartoon lizards.  The water is purported to, as the advert said, "Enlighten.  Energize.  Challenge.  Calm."  That sounds amazing.

Advertising language is all about taking transitive verbs and making them intransitive.  Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.  What is really being peddled is a story about happiness in a bottle.  You're not buying the product, you're buying the story.

I can't really help you here.  You're focusing on my exposition and ignoring the points I'm trying to illustrate.  The water advert was just illustrative of how advertisers characterize the meaning of life and try to sell it to us.

Damn, I was so sure I was saying something interesting.

The idea of arriving at a meaning of life scientifically doesn't make any sense to me.

The idea of using mysticism, poetry, and drum circles to arrive at a meaning of life makes no sense to me.

If it gives people a sense of meaning, then it has succeeded, no?

What is your thinking?  You make the implicit assumption that science can never model and predict human experiences.

Not at all, though at present that falls outside of science and into phenomenology.

It can by no means become a hard science like chemistry or physics, but we can build a representative theory of human experience by studying it and applying what we know of humans and their experiences, especially though psychological science.

Maybe.

My point was this: to speak of "the meaning of life" is to speak of an external meaning intrinsic to reality.  Out there for science to discover.  That is what I was rejecting.

If you mean contentment might be found or at least helped along by science and/or phenomenology, that's a different story and clearly so.

[Elder Iptuous]

I like it.
will have to read up on some of the references.

i once read that we can see the desire for transcendence in the way we universally disorient ourselves as children.  I think every kid in the world spins around in order to replace their balance with a sense of vertigo that slowly fades.

I like the quote from Kafka.  It fits my thoughts on ultimate meaning as desire for continued existence.  as living beings that continue our form by beating into the wind of entropy, it is our desire that directs us how and when to change tack.  i think all our follies are simply complicated eddies or our desire to fulfill the biological imperative.

(Incidentally, it is for this reason that i see those who have abandoned the biological imperative in the pursuit of 'enlightenment' as the ultimate failure mode of the thinking mind... )