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Don't get me wrong, I greatly appreciate the fact that you're at least putting effort into sincerely arguing your points. It's an argument I've enjoyed having. It's just that your points are wrong and your reasons for thinking they're right are stupid.

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The Discordian Art of War

Started by Cain, May 13, 2009, 03:53:50 PM

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Cain

Book three: User Level Three clearance required.

1.  If you want to be practical, it is far better to capture than destroy.  Especially if you are fighting an enemy to seize their territory or resources.  Its not much good to you if bits of it are still on fire, or spread out over 200 square miles.
2.  To defeat all comers on the battlefield is not the height of excellence and skill, that is to break the enemies resistance without fighting at all.
3.  The highest form of generalship is to disrupt your enemy's plans, the next best is to prevent him getting his forces in place to attack, the next is to fight his forces and the worse is protracted warfare where the enemy is in a well-defended position.
4.  If the enemy is entrenched, ignore then unless you have no other choice.  Otherwise, settle in for a long fight.
5.  In such a fight, you cannot afford to lose your temper.  If you do, then the only way you will win is by marching another army over the dead bodies of your previous one.
6.  Therefore, the Wise Spag defeats the enemy without fighting, he captures entrenched positions without protracted fighting and he overthrows regimes without lengthy field operations.  Or else he's not very Wise, and should probably be stripped of his title.
7.  When your forces are intact, few people are going to be willing to fight you.  This is how you win a war.
8.  If you massively outnumber the enemy, encircle his positions, if you outnumber him securely, then attack, and if you have twice as many, divide your army up.
9.  If you are equal in numbers then you can attack, if inferior then you can avoid them, and if outmatched you can escape.
10.  Small forces can be buggers, and do plenty of damage, but ultimately they will be caught and stopped by larger forces.
11.  The leader is responsible for the defence of his society or group.  If he is competent at all points, his defence will be strong, but if not, then the group is endangered.
12 There are three ways in which an Episkopos can bring misfortune upon his army:--
   (1) By giving the army orders it quite literally cannot carry out.
   (2) By attempting to govern his forces according to how other things are organized, being ignorant of the conditions which an army must deal with.
   (3) By having useless or incompetent officers, which shakes the confidence of the rank and file.
13.  If the force keeping the peace hasn't got its shit together, people are going to take advantage.  There will be conspiring and jockeying for positions of influence, and you will get your ass handed to you.
14.  The Law of Fives also applies to victory:
   (1) By knowing when to fight and not to fight
   (2) By being able to win both when you're working with people who have their shit
                 together, and with complete cabbages.
   (3) By making sure everyone is working towards the same goal.
   (4) By having your shit together, and attacking someone who doesn't.
   (5) By knowing what you are doing, and not letting those who don't micromanage you
                  into defeat.
15.  Hence the saying of the Wise Spag, Lil Zane: "Do you know who you are messing with?"  Know who you are messing with, know who is doing the messing, and you need not fear the result of over 9000 battles.  Know neither and you will be defeated.

Corvidia

One for sorrow,
Two for joy,
Three for a girl,
Four for a boy,
Five for silver,
Six for gold,
Seven for a secret never to be told.

Cain

I think I might add a modified 36 Strategems onto the end of this.  With reference to PD.com members, events and activities.

Cainad (dec.)

Just read parts 2 and 3 :mittens:, and that idea is superb. :lulz:

Cain

Book 4

1.  The Wise Spags of old made sure they couldn't lose first, then they went out and defeated the enemy.
2.  Making sure you don't lose is your own responsibility.  Usually your enemy will, through lack of foresight, lay down the conditions for his own defeat.
3.  Therefore, the Wise Spag can be certain he cannot lose, but be unsure of defeating an adversary.
4.  Hence the saying: what you know ain't necessarily what you can do.
5.  Securing yourself implies going on the defensive, defeating the enemy implies going on the offensive.
6.  Therefore, being defensive suggests insufficient strength, whereas going on the offensive suggests surplus strength.
7.  The Episkopos who is skilled at defence keeps himself hidden and secure.  The Episkopos skilled at attack is seen for miles around.  With one way lies safety and the other victory.
8.  If you only realize victory is in your grasp once most Cabbages have realized the same, then you're not really that smart.
9.  Winning battles which the Cabbages call "excellent" is not the height of excellence.
10.  To fool the Cabbage is no act of great cunning, to see that the Illuminati are behind everything requires no great insight, to be able to bring everything back to the Law of Fives requires no great ingenuity.
11.  What Wise Spags call an excellent fighter is one who not only wins, but excels at winning with ease.
12.  Thus they do not gain a reputation for great courage or virtue, for their victories come about through no miscalculation. 
13.  He wins by making no mistakes.  This is what seals the possibility of victory, for it means fighting an enemy who is already defeated.
14.  Hence the skillful Episkopos puts himself into a place where defeat is impossible, and does not miss the moment where the enemy falters and makes a mistake.
15.  The Wise Spag only seeks battle after victory has already been won, whereas the Cabbage fights first and afterwards looks for victory.
16.  The skilled Episkopos cultivates the Chao and applies the Aneristic Delusion; thus it is in his power to effect victory.
17.  Military Method derives from the Law of Fives; measurements, quantity, calculation of the two, comparison of chances and victory.
18.  Measurements are derived from conditions outside of the Black Iron Prison, quantities are derived from measurement, calculations are derived from quantity, comparison from calculations and victory from comparison.
19.  A victorious army is one which compares overwhelmingly against enemy forces.
20.  The onrush of a conquering force is like a tidal wave, knocking down tourist resorts.

LMNO

When this is done, we should make a scroll of it or something.

Telarus

Really good work, Cain. A couple of the passages didn't read quite right to me, may I make some suggestions?

Quote10.  To fool the Cabbage is no act of great cunning, to see that the Illuminati are behind everything requires no great insight, to be able to bring everything back to the Law of Fives requires no great ingenuity.

This is BRILLIANT, no changes I can recommend, just wanted to say it was brilliant.

Quote16.  The skilled Episkopos cultivates the Chao and applies the Aneristic Delusion; thus it is in his power to effect victory.

This is mostly referred to as the Aneristic Principle/Illusion in the PD, may I suggest [applies the Aneristic Principle without falling victim to the Aneristic Illusion]

Quote17.  Military Method derives from the Law of Fives; measurements, quantity, calculation of the two, comparison of chances and victory.

18.  Measurements are derived from conditions outside of the Black Iron Prison, quantities are derived from measurement, calculations are derived from quantity, comparison from calculations and victory from comparison.

This was a little hard to follow. Are you working from the Lionel Giles translation? (it doesn't seem so) He uses "estimation of quantities". Love the Lo5 reference.

Overall, excellent work.
Telarus, KSC,
.__.  Keeper of the Contradictory Cephalopod, Zenarchist Swordsman,
(0o)  Tender to the Edible Zen Garden, Ratcheting Metallic Sex Doll of The End Times,
/||\   Episkopos of the Amorphous Dreams Cabal

Join the Doll Underground! Experience the Phantasmagorical Safari!

Cain

Lost the link for this for a while.  I should probably start again soon.

Telarus, I'll be honest, the translation I was using made even less sense than my attempt at converting it (it was really fucking weird).  I have a fairly recent, Thomas Cleary translation upstairs, so I will consult than and the Lionel Giles version and see what comes out of it.  Thanks for the help, and catching the typo (I meant to write Illusion, but for some reason, did not).