The case against Obama

[Cain]

Oh, right.  My apologies.  James Buchanan and Warren Harding were the two I had in mind.  I mean, you could argue the case for several others as well, but I would still say Bush is up there with the worst of them.

[Elder Iptuous]

Oh, right.  My apologies.  James Buchanan and Warren Harding were the two I had in mind.  I mean, you could argue the case for several others as well, but I would still say Bush is up there with the worst of them.

Although I'm certainly not a fan of bush, when I hear people claim that he's the 'worst' president as far as his administrative actions, it makes me wonder how well that can accurately be assessed.
Firstly, we lived through this administration, and so have had a continuous stream of information regarding the actions it made, whereas we have to rely on historical tidbits of past administrations, which are sparser and sparser the further you go back.
Secondly, there is simply more information exchanged currently than there used to be.  Secrecy is a problem now, but it was simply a given in the past when information simply didn't have the velocity and tracking, wasn't it?

I can imagine in the future, some younger people that didn't live through the bush admin complaining about their current admin being the worst ever based on their ridiculously huge amounts of information that they have to parse through.
Likewise, I can see the possibility that some past president that is bland and doesn't draw to much historical scrutiny having had secret impacts that are far worse than anything the 'bad' presidents may have done...  Of course I am conspiratorially minded, so that may seem unlikely to others.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Oh, right.  My apologies.  James Buchanan and Warren Harding were the two I had in mind.  I mean, you could argue the case for several others as well, but I would still say Bush is up there with the worst of them.

I was thinking Harding specifically with the Teapot Dome scandal. Bush was for Big Oil, but Harding was specifically picked by Big Oil at a Big Oil meeting as the candidate they would run/support. That poor dude was a patsy from the beginning.

Overall, I think Cian is spot on with the critique of Obama... on the other hand, it would be interesting to see how wingnuts responded to this, as it rips apart their "Bush was Good, Obama is ruinin' it" meme.

[Halfbaked1]

I just can't add anything to this really.

I simply want to thank Cain for pointing out these facts and say that I intend to spread this word to the forums that I frequent to see what sort of hell I can unleash. 

Also, can I have some citation on the torture thing?  I have no problem believing it, but i will be facing wingnuts that won't and I would like a bit to throw back at them.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Still. He's better than the last few eh?

How?

[Rumckle]

He smiles when he fucks you?

[Cain]

Updated with links

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

He smiles when he fucks you?

And he uses the English language to explain how he's fucking you... as opposed to Bush's 'make-it-up-as-you-go' language.

[Elder Iptuous]

Updated with links

this is going to fly around the intarwebs.
what attribution do you wish?

[Cain]

Whichever you feel you want.  I may throw it up on Alamut though, given some time, so that might be a useful link to drop and quote from.

Edit: slightly altered version on the blog http://alamut.wordpress.com/2010/01/19/the-case-against-obama/

[Cain]

Requia,



I just read the thread on that forum where you posted the list.

I think I liked this one most:

The Obama admin could give in on three-quarters of the things you listed here, and you people on the far left would still fold your arms and pout on the sidelines like useless children. Carter tried (for a while) to run the government purely by progressive left public policies and foreign policies and it FAILED MISERABLY and BACKFIRED because the far left still found excuses not to support him. Al Gore similarly tried to peel off Green Party votes during the 2000 campaign by making relatively radical promises in support of Kyoto, finance reform, NAFTA, China, national security translucency and some other things, and again it backfired. Another example is the recent !@#$ storm in Massachusetts. Turnout among voters on the far left is low because they think Coakley is "more like Kerry than Kennedy" in regards to healthcare reform. As a result, we could get a 41st GOP Senator and NO HEALTHCARE REFORM AT ALL! Well done.

It's possible to win and be successful in American politics by being a solid liberal. But leftists in the US have earned the reputation as being a bunch of honest and smart, but sadly disorganized, fickle, emotional, and politically naive hippies that you cannot trust to stand by your side when you have to make a tough compromise.

I hope the far left in this country grows up soon. Because if they don't get a hold of themselves by 2012 we'll have a Republican president in the White House and a Republican majority in the House and Senate. Then, instead of whining about Obama's failure to prosecute Dick Cheney for lying about WMD's in Iraq, or trillion dollar loan to Wall Street.........they'll be whining about the Palin/Limbaugh administration's invasion of Iran and trillion dollar tax cut to Wall Street.

In a way, what makes it even more pathetic is that so many of the individuals I'm criticizing are amazingly bright. They're almost unanimously well-educated, and also charitable enough to frequently volunteer. But on a national level their political efforts are wasted, or perhaps even increase the likelihood of conservative policies. I really wish they'd swallow their pride and jump into the arena with the best politician who has a chance of actually winning. We need their help.

For those Americans out there who are on the far-left, I leave you with this thought:

See all those tea-baggers running around with "NO TO SOCIALISM" signs?

THEY'RE IN THE FIGHT.

YOU'RE NOT.

I could rebut this, but it would detract from its hilarity.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I don't know, Cain, I kind of agree with that.

[Cain]

Its patently stupid.  Its an argument for not holding a politicians feet to the fire, because then teh evil wingnuts would get in and...well, what, exactly?  Do pretty much the same stupid, evil shit? Ooh boy, that would be, um, exactly how things are now.  Oh teh noes.

Its petty partisan politics.  Obama should be allowed to get away with shit Bush would've gotten called on because the Democrats are better.  Except, if they're doing the same things, then, uh, they're not.  My metric is "would I have chewed out Bush over this?"  And the answer to all of them is yes.

I also find the idea that the "far left" (because wanting the rule of law and freedom from constant surveillance now makes you Che fucking Guevara, right?) will be responsible for the wingnuts getting in to be somewhat offensive.  Its not like its the "far left" who are constantly cutting deals with the wingnuts in the Senate or House on things like surveillance or healthcare, in essence giving everyone on the liberal left and beyond no valid reason to vote for the Democrats.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Its patently stupid.  Its an argument for not holding a politicians feet to the fire, because then teh evil wingnuts would get in and...well, what, exactly?  Do pretty much the same stupid, evil shit? Ooh boy, that would be, um, exactly how things are now.  Oh teh noes.

Its petty partisan politics.  Obama should be allowed to get away with shit Bush would've gotten called on because the Democrats are better.  Except, if they're doing the same things, then, uh, they're not.  My metric is "would I have chewed out Bush over this?"  And the answer to all of them is yes.

I also find the idea that the "far left" (because wanting the rule of law and freedom from constant surveillance now makes you Che fucking Guevara, right?) will be responsible for the wingnuts getting in to be somewhat offensive.  Its not like its the "far left" who are constantly cutting deals with the wingnuts in the Senate or House on things like surveillance or healthcare, in essence giving everyone on the liberal left and beyond no valid reason to vote for the Democrats.

Well, what I was agreeing with is that the left is fucking useless in America.

[Cain]

Oh.  Well, yes.

But I rather think the quoted poster likes it that way, since then "rule of law extremists" (yes, I have seen this phrase seriously used, though not by the poster in question) cant ruin the bestest Presidency ever.