Did Vonnegut read the Principia Discordia, and when?

[Verbal Mike]

So I'm re-reading Vonnegut's Cat's Cradle and it strikes me as somewhat more than subtly Discordianesque. It was written in 1963, a mere five years after the first edition of the PD was first written, so it would have been non-trivial for KV to get his hands on it. But I wonder. Bokononism, a religion described in the book, seems like Discordianism infused with a tiny bit of humanist Christianity (to wit, the idea that God has a plan for individuals, combined with the sacredness of man [and nothing else]). There are many things that can easily be interpreted as winks towards Discordia (the first scene in which Mona Aamons is described, her clothing is bluntly described as "Greek", and she is - to me - a flesh-and-blood Eris; on a few occasions I noticed prominent mentions of LAWLO5S numbers such as 23; and other similar things.)

Of course it is very likely I am reading too much into this. Being a kind-of-underground writer in roughly the same time period as the inception of PD, the similarities may simply be the result of common background. But I wonder if there is more to it.

When the semester is over I might collect Discordianesque quotes from CC, if anyone is interested. Until then, does anyone have any theories about the KV-PD connection?

[Verbal Mike]

P.S.
Obviously Kurt Vonnegut, and Bokonon, have been sainted many times over, and rightfully. This is not a question of whether they could be considered Discordian, but of whether KV was actually riffing off of PD and/or its writers.

[Triple Zero]

but the first edition of the PD was a limited edition of 5 copies printed in 1965. and the next editions were printed in '69 and '70?

of course this is a minor detail since the Slaughterhouse Five (ZOMGFLPINEAL!!~) is mainly a story about time travel, so Vonnegut could have easily read the PD before it was printed.

I haven't read Slaughterhouse Five btw, I should soon. Loved Cat's Cradle, though.

[Verbal Mike]

Hmm. Okay so not the PD, but could it be that KV had actually been introduced to Discordia before writing CC? Discordia was stlll invented in 58/59... Hmm.

[Rococo Modem Basilisk]

It's conceivable. I haven't come across any hard evidence, but it's something I'll look into on a rainy day.

[LMNO]

As far as I understand it, KV was a bit of an Absurdist (in the Existentialist meaning), so it's not a stretch to think he was independently having similar ideas around the same time that Hill and the others were getting inspired.

It could all be Lo5, really.

Also, 000: Slaughterhouse 5 is a good read.  I reccommend it.

[Z³]

I think Breakfast of Champions also has an extremely discordian seeming theme to it.
It also has one of the best introductory chapters of any book, ever.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

When my brain exploded and my paradigm shifted and the wrecking ball came through the wall of my BiP, I found myself reading KVJr and RAW back to back for about six months.

I've come to the conclusion that they had an almost identical philosophy with one large difference. Vonnegut's experiences with WWII, left him as an absurdist/nihilist and RAW's social, psychological and psychedelic experiences left him as an absurdist/optimist. Having read Greg Hill's stuff and Thornley's, I think they were similarly split. Thornley, because of his experiences and whatever mental issues he had was an absurdist/nihilist and Greg, for at least the first part of his life was more absurdist/optimist. Though, once he left the absurd behind and joined the ranks of the Greyface, he apparently became a self-destructive, depressed nihilist.

I was particularly impressed with the juxtaposition of RAW and KVJr though. In the end, I think I tended to accept the optimistic view over the nihilistic one... but had I fought in WWII, I doubt that would have been the case.

I think I recall some conversation where Bob mentioned knowing/taling to Kurt, but IIRC that was in the 80's/90's not in the 50's/60's. As for Kerry and Greg, I don't recall anything that indicated they knew Vonnegut.

All in all though, I prefer Vonnegut's storytelling and Bob's philosophy

[Jasper]

I think Breakfast of Champions also has an extremely discordian seeming theme to it.
It also has one of the best introductory chapters of any book, ever.

*   <----This asterisk is a butt-hole.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

I think Breakfast of Champions also has an extremely discordian seeming theme to it.
It also has one of the best introductory chapters of any book, ever.

*   <----This asterisk is a butt-hole.

Can we haz emoticons from the 'illustrations' in Breakfast of Champions? I'll be happy to help find the images

[Jenne]

Also, 000: Slaughterhouse 5 is a good read.  I reccommend it.

THIS