Pot/drugs: An all-encompassing explanation.

[Pope Pixie Pickle]

This Pix has been a space cadet too long. Imma clean living Holywoman for the forseeable future what with being all psychotic for as yet reasons unclear.  Altho the lad next door is smoking skunk and it smells nice when I'm outside smoking my cigs.

[LMNO]

yay! lets beat up on the pothead because we do not agree with his ways of enjoying himself! 

Me I thought PD.com was a touch more accepting than this like. but there we go. you know what thought did eh?

I think this falls under #2:

2.  Getting fucked up for cheap physical gratification.  After all the excuses and rationalizations run out, this is why most potheads smoke pot, and why most pillheads take pills, etc.  WHY they make rationalizations is beyond me...I can respect a pot smoker who states that he does it for this reason, but not someone who feels they have to explain a higher meaning to their self-indulgences.

I drink.  I probably drink too much.  Scratch that.  I know I drink too much.  I've been scaling back, but I doubt I'll ever hit zero.  Because I like the alcohol buzz.  Not the shitfaced drunk beyond belief roomspins and vomit and lack of coherent speech, but the buzz.  I also like the taste of many alcohols.  I also am somewhat socially introverted, and an alcohol buzz often pushes me over that small inhibition. Yeah, I can do it sober too, and I'm probably using that as an excuse to get buzzed. 


I used to take drugs with the idea that it would open up new worlds and experiences, burt after being disappointed too many times, I took them to get fucked up.  Eventually, I scaled back, because getting that fucked up wasn't worth it anymore, and being fucked up and doing stupid things wasn't, you know, fun.

Also, I've reached that age where if I drink too much, I lose my fine muscle coordination, and I can't play drums.  Music's more important to me. 

[Dysfunctional Cunt]

Then about 8 years ago I was diagnosed with RA. I'm to the point now there isn't much left that helps.  So I admit, when it's so bad I can't get out of bed, I'll track down a bag, smoke a joint and I can actually walk around without the cane on one side and a kid on the other. When 4 percocet do NOTHING you try other shit.

not sure what RA is (rheumatic arthritis? something very painful, anyway), but this always amazes me.

does the pain-relieving effect of weed only work for muscle or joint pains or something?

I do believe you but I seriously have never noticed pain relief effects from weed. But then, I'm not often in a lot of pain. Maybe I should try it when I have muscle ache from running too much the previous day.

Doesn't really matter I just think it's amazing that it's such an incredible help for people with such bad pains.

Yes, RA is Rheumatoid Arthritis.  The drugs they have now for RA are pretty damn toxic.  One of the girls I work with is losing her hair from the one she is on.

Alone, weed doesn't really do anything, but combined with the pain pills, it kind of gives them a boost if that makes sense.

When my mom was going through chemo, she got down to 87 pounds.  I had a friend take her a box of joints.  She said it was the best thing she ever tried, not only did it help with the pain, but she was able to eat and keep it down.

So for medicianl purposes, I am and will be a big advocate for weed.  Hell, in some situations, almost anything that would help I'm for.  

[Triple Zero]

I drink.  I probably drink too much.  Scratch that.  I know I drink too much.  I've been scaling back, but I doubt I'll ever hit zero.  Because I like the alcohol buzz.  Not the shitfaced drunk beyond belief roomspins and vomit and lack of coherent speech, but the buzz.  I also like the taste of many alcohols.  I also am somewhat socially introverted, and an alcohol buzz often pushes me over that small inhibition. Yeah, I can do it sober too, and I'm probably using that as an excuse to get buzzed. 

I totally hear where you're coming from LMNO. I too, love the buzz, and the taste of that first cold beer on a hot summer afternoon, or a glass of pretty good vodka. I gotta say, living together with a girl that will tell me once in a while that I shouldn't drink during the day, or something, but -thank god- doesn't make a big deal out of it, has helped tremendous lots. Used to drink every day (ok, college life, but still), and now .. um, well and now not I do have to say the big thing about it is still that I, as I have ever, never keep alcohol in the house. I'd be buying myself silly because I do not seem to have the willpower to not drink it up little by little every day. But the supermarket is just too closeby, so it's not 100% proof

I wonder about the social inhibition thing though, LMNO. Because you speak of that little buzz. It sounds a bit like placebo to me, because I think the change in your mind between not in a social situation and being actively engaged in conversation with friends, seems to me a lot bigger than what this small buzz can cause.
I mean, yeah I totally understand using it as an excuse to consume alcohol. I do the same thing, but it's more straightforward to cut out the middle man, don't you think? I go "Ok I'm out with friends, this is a time when it's socially accepted to get buzzed, yay!". To think you need it in order to be less introvert, that's just a silly thing to get hung up on. Not silly because it makes you drink more, but silly because of painting a connection that doesn't need to be there.

[LMNO]

if number 2 was worded "because its fun" I'd agree with that Shit LMNO, I can't even go out and get drunk, without feeling like shit for about two days later. But, getting buzzed is fun also. Balls to all that loosens me up and makes me more social. I drink for the pleasure of copping a cheap buzz. Makes me talk absolute shit, and at length about fuck all too, according to Bella.

I think the point was that it doesn't matter what reasoning you give, you're using because of the physical sensations.  End of story.  And if you notice, that was pretty much the only circumstance where Dok said, "if that's why you're doing it, fine."

I used to take drugs with the idea that it would open up new worlds and experiences, burt after being disappointed too many times, I took them to get fucked up.

rather disappointing init.

makes a good PSA that. "Drugs: Actually pretty lame. Not as cool as previously made out by the Drug Council." lol.

Actually, yes.  If I have kids, they'll eventually be getting a variation on this.

[-Kel-]

Chef: I just want to tell you that drugs are bad.

Stan: We know, we know, that's what everybody says.

Chef: Right, but do you know why they're bad?

Kyle (like a robot): Because they're an addictive solution to a greater problem causing disease of both body and mind with consequences far outweighing their supposed benefits.

Chef: And do you have any idea what that means?

Kyle: No.

Cartman: I know. Drugs are bad because if you do drugs you're a hippy, and hippies suck.

Chef: Look children: this is all I'm gonna say about drugs. Stay away from them. There's a time and a place for everything and it's called college.

Note: haven't read all of this thread yet, but loved this.

Isn't there another ep when Randy and Kyle's Dad jerk each other off in a hottub or watch? and Randy says to the kids, "There is a time and a place for everything and its called college."

Think I might use that on my kids.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

the only drug that i haven't tried and would like to is ether

Gives you the spins and a headache, but is fun to try once. Can't say I recommend it.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I don't think E and meth are even in the same ballpark.

Chemically very similar,  both are Methamphetemines, MDMA stands for Methylenedioxymethamphetamine

which means it is meth with extra methylenedioxide.

I enjoyed E way more when I tried it, and I have seen less people with destroyed lives because of it, but they are definitely in the same park.

Both are amphetamines, and they are chemically similar but when it comes to toxicity and addictive effects claiming they are in the same ball park is like putting Novocaine in the same category as crack because they are chemically similar.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15474609

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I don't think E and meth are even in the same ballpark.

Chemically very similar,  both are Methamphetemines, MDMA stands for Methylenedioxymethamphetamine

which means it is meth with extra methylenedioxide.

I enjoyed E way more when I tried it, and I have seen less people with destroyed lives because of it, but they are definitely in the same park.

Just because they are chemically very similar does not mean that they are in the same ball park.

Ethanol and methanol are chemically very similar, but methanol will kill you a lot faster.

If I'd read on before replying I could have just quoted you and said "THIS".

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

It is definitely reactive and potentially dangerous when combined with other drugs, and people who are taking antidepressants should never take it.

Really? I never used MDMA and am uncertain if I ever will, but this is one of those things that are good to know. I thought this was only the case with the MAO inhibitors and/or the tricyclic antidepressants, not the SSRIs?

Good thing Internets are ubiquitous these days, if I ever get into the temptation I could probably take a quick look at Erowid first.

The interaction with MAOIs can be fatal, the interaction with SSRIs apparently simply suppresses the effect of the MDMA, but the problem is that there's not a lot known about MDMA drug interactions except that it does, and that sometimes (rarely, but...) the interactions are fatal.

Bottom line for me is that as much as I enjoy it, I wouldn't take it with anything else in my system, however innocuous.

On the other hand, if it was the killer the news media made it out to be seven years ago, though, Burning Man would be littered with corpses at the end of the week, yet fatalities there are incredibly rare and are usually from vehicular accidents or falling off of things.

[Captain Utopia]

I have an awful time concentrating or staying focussed.  For me, pot helps with this - an effect which lasts for a few days to a couple of weeks after.  Though lately it has occurred to me that there are likely more targeted options available, and I'll be investigating that avenue shortly.  About once or twice a year I'll get a small amount - 1/4 to 1/2 ounce - and at the rate of half a joint after everyone has gone to bed, that lasts about a month or two.  If I could get the mental effects without the physical then I would - I enjoy the physical effects but I'm not a sensation junkie - there is booze in the house which will go untouched for six months or more.  Rarely I'll I feel a little homesick, I'll have a shot of whisky, and that'll be that.  Most of our guests drive or have kids, so the booze just gathers dust now.

I spent a year smoking up every night after work and until bedtime, I wore a hole in a couch and enjoyed myself thoroughly - no complaints - but I don't want to go back to being lost in the haze like that.  Although to be fair, I did have a specific question in mind during that year - whether there was anything at the bottom of the well - whether it was possible to trigger a higher consciousness or awareness, and I found my answer.  That said, if I had another question which I thought it could help with, and if I was positive I could do so without negatively impacting my family, then I might consider it - I can't imagine any such circumstance right now though.

But the side effect which interests me the most is where I start risking open-mockery, for it is something which touches upon the "magical" in the sense of metaprogramming from Leary's 8-circuit model.  Or maybe it's just the detachment from compulsions as described in layer five -- I'm not entirely sure as I'm putting off reading LMNOs writeup until I've finally finished Angel Tech.  And maybe I'm taking the "programming" part too literally - being a programmer since the age of 10, it's a metaphor which I naturally apply to a variety of non-computer mechanisms.

Regardless, I find that during occasional usage I'll see patterns of my behaviour in terms of triggers and motivations, and I'm then able to successfully apply self-correcting tweaks during my sober periods (which I've conceived of while "high") in order to achieve certain goals.  Maybe that insight is simply a function of being able to follow through thought processes further than I usually can, or maybe it comes from something else.. either way, pot has the effect of cutting through my procrastination like a knife. 

Also, while most of my creative output during my year spent as a pothead was drivel, I find the opposite to be true during the last few years with my sporadic usage.  This might be just because I don't chase wild designs of imagination into the crazy corners of reality, but have time to evaluate them with a clear mind.. certainly, while high, most ideas seem great.

So I dunno.  Am I deluded by thinking that I use pot for self-improvement? 

There's a time and a place for everything and it's called college.

This.  In that, I first smoked pot when I was 26.  Well, technically 15, but I didn't feel any different and I think it was probably bisto.  But I'm pretty sure that I would have loved it, and that I would never have even gone to uni.  Heck, had I discovered it in uni, I'm not even sure I would have got my degree - I don't think I'm smart enough for that - especially as I find short-term memory somewhat useful for learning external facts.  And I know that if I didn't have the best job in the world, then I would never have gotten away with being an unproductive pothead for a year, during it.

But by the time I finally discovered pot, I had a pretty solid perspective on life which both gave me a grounding, and something to selectively break/tweak.

[hooplala]

I like smoking weed, and I like drinking.  And I especially like both when I am doing one or the other (or both!) with my wife.  We have fantastic conversations, and then we end up laughing ourselves stupid while watching a police chase on tv.  Or watching Lost.  Either way, a good week night.

[Da6s]

I personally prefer pot over alcohol, mainly because i don't like not having control.

I've had some glorious meals under the effects of that heathen devil plant. For some reason it always seems to intensify flavors for me.

*insert obligatory statement about how incredible sex can be under the effects that no one really wants to read here*

I'm also a bit of a night owl, and my sleep cycle functions better for what i need at times. Plus i'd rather smoke a small amount than be on ambien, but thats just me.

[East Coast Hustle]

I love pot, but I don't delude myself into thinking that I'm using it for any other reason than because I like being stoned when there's nothing else to do.

and that last part is key.

when there's nothing else to do.

[BabylonHoruv]

OH WAIT i do drink alot of caffeine....i dont really count that tho, but i will hike through snow drifts to get my coffee. that EFFORT is necessary otherwise my brain explodes.

Caffeine is definitely drugs.

Yep, and a startlingly powerful one, as proven by the actual debilitating effects of death coffee.

Okay then, serious question, I think about this a lot of the time.

A lot of people say they need caffeine (coffee usually) to "get their day started".

(However, if you drink coffee every day, tolerance occurs, and the alertness effects wane in relation to the side effects.)

Now, the OP says that unless you're doing drugs simply for entertainment or actual medical purposes, you're deluding yourself. Especially if you claim you "need them to be able to work".

Now don't jump on me right away, I'm serious. And I wonder about it a lot. So many people consume caffeine. Apart from the obvious withdrawal effects (headaches), to what extent do all these people really need caffeine to be able to function?

There are people that do not consume caffeine, are they significantly less efficient?

Are there actually any effects of caffeine on the personality? I have repeatedly observed friends that, when in a period they smoke pot every day, get significantly more cranky, depressed or bored, regardless of whether they're stoned at that moment, but just as a sort of background effect. I'm noticing the same thing with dex (about which I posted in another thread) which I quit for a week now, and I already feel a lot more "easy-going" (in a good way). I bet that people that drink 3+ alcohol units every day slightly change personality as well.

Does caffeine affect personality? Or does the tolerance effect prevent this, perhaps?

This is addiction, if you need a drug to function normally you are addicted.  I would say that yes Coffee does effect people's personality, but it isn't when they have the coffee that they are effected, it is when they don't, they get logy, cranky, and less quick witted.

Same is true of cigarettes, although someone going through nicotene withdrawal isn't as sleepy as someone going through caffeine withdrawal.

The other drug this is true of (in the long term) is Heroin, I have known junkies who were fine as long as they had their fix, mind you it was destroying them slowly physically, but mentally they were fine, but if they didin't have their fix they lost their shit.