Pot/drugs: An all-encompassing explanation.

[Bella]

I never took cocaine.  One Erowid entry described it as "a feeling of godlike confidence", and that just sounded.. well, lame, to me.

lame but tru.

Coke turns me into an opinionated monster on legs that will not STFU and is sweaty, drooly and makes me feels like a Supersayan crossed with the wit of Oscar Wilde, the ingenuity of MacGuyver, the feeling that everything I ever do, have done or will ever do is SO RIGHT and anything that YOU have ever done will never measure up to my AWESOME, much how Captain Kirk must feel all day, every day, while in actuality being a gibbering wreck, spouting broken biscuits into the night, with a mild nosebleed, lack of sexual prowess, random pukes and powder 'tache.

LAEM.

not touched the shit since 2007.

used to have one HELL of a problem.

Stick to the booze, honey. It turns you into an opinionated sweetheart of a man who will not STFU.

[AFK]

No, because I was describing my own experiences.  You would only be close-minded if you dismissed, out of hand, that any pot can play any positive role in the journey an individual takes towards a higher awareness of what it means to be a sentient creature.

But the fact that I've managed to become a fellow with a pretty open mind, able to comprehend and explore and understand that reality is as expansive as it is, without lifting a joint or doing any other kind of drug, well, that runs counter to the idea you seem to be suggesting which is that drugs are necessary to tap into , or catalyze, that kind of awareness.  So, obviously you are incorrect. 

Further, I would argue that relying upon chemicals is only circumventing the real problem.  Which is that you seem to be existing in an environment that is not conducive to you being able to consider a more expansive model of reality.  So, when the drugs wear off, those same roadblocks are there. 

Umm, no.  It's not that our brain has receptors made for mind altering substances.  It's that our brain was outfitted with receptors designed for our natural brain chemistry, but when you introduce foreign chemicals, you experience the highs of the drugs.  Or, the drugs breakdown into components that mimic our natural brain chemistry, and amp it up.  No matter how you slice it, it is not natural.  And no, we aren't unique.  Anything with a brain can experience the results of having that brain altered with chemicals. 

the pleasure center wins out far too often with some. 
I don't believe in intelligent design.  Your usage of "natural" is strange to me - virtually nothing about our environment is "natural" - if we used that for our yardstick then we wouldn't have even started living in caves or using tools.

I'm not talking about intelligent design.  I'm talking about the idea that humans come packaged with a certain chemistry set.  If nature believed it was beneficial for us to have these chemicals in our system, it would likely be more common than not that they were in our system.  No, indeed, nature has decided that many of these mind-altering chemicals, are actualy pretty harmful to our bodies, and have developed symptoms and side-effects to warn us of that fact.  Unfortunately,

[Doktor Howl]

No, because I was describing my own experiences.  You would only be close-minded if you dismissed, out of hand, that any pot can play any positive role in the journey an individual takes towards a higher awareness of what it means to be a sentient creature.

What is this hippie shit? 

[Captain Utopia]

To me, "Higher Awareness" is simply a better understanding.  I don't believe in ghosts.

[Doktor Howl]

To me, "Higher Awareness" is simply a better understanding.  I don't believe in ghosts.

So, you get a better understanding by muddying up your cognitive processes?

[AFK]

To me, "Higher Awareness" is simply a better understanding.  I don't believe in ghosts.

So, is it that you are incapable of having that experience without drugs?  If so, why do you suppose that is?  If not, then why would you use drugs?   

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Mind-altering substances (by definition) change the way you think, and therefore can be sudden catalysts for new (to you) patterns of thinking. Not always "enlightened", not always "better", but different.

Is anyone seriously arguing that doesn't happen?

[AFK]

Confirmation bias. 

[Triple Zero]

No, because I was describing my own experiences.  You would only be close-minded if you dismissed, out of hand, that any pot can play any positive role in the journey an individual takes towards a higher awareness of what it means to be a sentient creature.

But the fact that I've managed to become a fellow with a pretty open mind, able to comprehend and explore and understand that reality is as expansive as it is, without lifting a joint or doing any other kind of drug, well, that runs counter to the idea you seem to be suggesting which is that drugs are necessary to tap into , or catalyze, that kind of awareness.  So, obviously you are incorrect. 

Further, I would argue that relying upon chemicals is only circumventing the real problem.  Which is that you seem to be existing in an environment that is not conducive to you being able to consider a more expansive model of reality.  So, when the drugs wear off, those same roadblocks are there. 

Umm, no.  It's not that our brain has receptors made for mind altering substances.  It's that our brain was outfitted with receptors designed for our natural brain chemistry, but when you introduce foreign chemicals, you experience the highs of the drugs.  Or, the drugs breakdown into components that mimic our natural brain chemistry, and amp it up.  No matter how you slice it, it is not natural.  And no, we aren't unique.  Anything with a brain can experience the results of having that brain altered with chemicals. 

the pleasure center wins out far too often with some. 
I don't believe in intelligent design.  Your usage of "natural" is strange to me - virtually nothing about our environment is "natural" - if we used that for our yardstick then we wouldn't have even started living in caves or using tools.

I'm not talking about intelligent design.  I'm talking about the idea that humans come packaged with a certain chemistry set.  If nature believed it was beneficial for us to have these chemicals in our system, it would likely be more common than not that they were in our system.

except of course for all those vitamins, and all those other chemicals that are "unnatural" because they don't come with our prepackaged chemistry set so we have to get them from plants and other organisms.

and if you don't want to talk about intelligent design, best not to use phrases like "nature believes" in anything.

co-evolution is  a wonderful thing, and is only the tip of the iceberg.

not saying humans are "meant to" use drugs, but your arguments about why it is "unnatural" are all wrong.

(I put those words in quotes because I feel the terms have no real meaning in this discussion)

How would this relate to, say, humans, yeast and alcohol? There are quite some strains of yeast that wouldn't exist if it wasn't for their alcohol-producing properties. But on the same level, there are quite some strains of humans that wouldn't exist if it wasn't for their parents alcohol-consumption properties. Is this example of symbiosis unnatural? And if so, what about our intestinal flora?

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

To me, "Higher Awareness" is simply a better understanding.  I don't believe in ghosts.

So, is it that you are incapable of having that experience without drugs?  If so, why do you suppose that is?  If not, then why would you use drugs?   

Why not?

Alcohol, nicotine, and caffeine are all drugs. Do you use any of them?

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Confirmation bias. 

So you are arguing that none of these substances actually alter your cognitive process?

[Triple Zero]

That is ridiculous. With shrooms I experienced some mental states that I could have never experienced without drugs. Except maybe through years of meditation practice and yoga or something. Maybe, cause I wouldn't know.

And yes, some of those experiences are pretty damn valuable to me.

[East Coast Hustle]

the problem with psychosis is caused my the natural balance of the plant being out of whack and to some extent, improper curing and flushing out of the plant before it is dried. THC is he stuff that makes you high, the CBD is the stuff that helps with pain relief and actually contains some anti-psychotic qualities.

Some growers spray the plants with nasty stuff such as Ketamine which can really fuck you up. No one expects a K-hole when your having a joint yo.

Skunk was my poison of choice for a very long time, these higher THC bred strains are the out of balance types I refer to. The process of making hash turns out more CBD than THC, and some skunk strains have about 16% TCH and 1 % CBD. Psychosis is caused in people who are prone to this kind of mental health issue, and smoking high grade skunk may be fun, but it will exacerbate any pre-existing mental health problem.

Humans have known for a very long time how to make pot stronger, and to some extent the massive imbalance now is a contributory, but not the definitive answer to why i got all fucked up. Insomnia massive stress and opiates can also cause psychotic episodes and I was using co-codamol to try to not go sick frm work, the stress of the last 6 months has been  (i consider, I've had no expert help on this one) the major contributory factor to why I got all fucked up in my poor heid. (Work, Douchebag ex and poor lifestyle I think were the major factors, but my cannabis use was not helping in the reality filter department.


It is doubtful that low quantity occasional users will ever suffer serious health problems as a result of the occasional joint. If my psychosis is temporary I'm taking a very long break from Mary Jane, and wont ever go back to caning it on the daily if i ever smoke again.

the analytical thinky side of using pot can be useful for some people, as FP described, and actually the stress of quitting outright in the need to remove it as a variable for my medical team actually made some of my symptoms worse... but hey, I'm over halfway to getting it all out of my system now, so I'm not going to fuck it up now I'm over the hump.

1. Nobody "sprays pot with ketamine", and if they do all they're doing is wasting a bunch of ketamine and making their pot unsmokeable.

2. "Skunk" is one specific strain of marijuana, and as with any strain of pot the environmental factors and how it's cared for while it's grown are going to affect the THC content FAR more than the slight variations in genetics between strains. IOW, skunk that's grown outdoors, pollenated, and/or generally neglected is going to have a much lower THC content than some regular old ditchweed seeds grown hydroponically with the proper nutrient dosages and appropriate pruning.

[East Coast Hustle]

what or who is responsible for catalyzing open-mindedness? I think an external "adulterant" be it traveling, reading,  or a drug is required to dissolve your concrete opinions and assumptions.  Of course it was me that did it but  drugs have certain universal personalities and characteristics that persuade your mind to receive change.

Yeah, you are full of shit.  You don't need a foreign chemical to catalyze open-mindedness.  All you need is awareness.

That's like saying you don't need a car to get across the country, so it's more virtuous to walk.  I lived to 26 years of age without experiencing the effects of pot.  It started me on a path to awareness and self-improvement I had never cared about before that.

Um, no, that's actually a horrible analogy.  Because in that analogy the car is not a catalyst in getting you from point A to point B.  It IS what's getting you from point A to point B.  Drugs don't open up magickal doorways to the supernatural.  It screws with your brain chemistry making you think you are experiencing brand new, otherworldly experiences.  It isn't broadening your horizons.  It's just giving them a different color scheme. 

I never said anything about magic, the supernatural or otherworldly experiences.

At age 26 I thought I had the world pretty much figured out.  The day after I smoked pot, I realised that I didn't.  It's as simple as that.

I didn't realise that an "open mind" quickly fills up with bullshit, too.  If I hadn't tried pot then I would likely have just settled down into a world of comfortable conclusions.  I can't think of anything which demonstrates more efficiently to an individual that their reality tunnel is an entirely optional construct.  Where that individual decides to go from there is up to them, and I did not change overnight but the journey started then.

So, I suppose someone like myself, who has never used marijuana or any other illicit drug, is closed minded?  Would you then assume that I am only coming to "comfortable conclusions"?

I would never presume to make assumptions about the conclusions you come to, as that would be retarded. However, in a very specific context, not ever having personally experienced any illicit drugs DOES leave a gap in your knowledge and credibility when the subject comes up, and I know you have a vast collection of data to draw from but surely you aren't going to say that personal experience is irrelevant? So in this very specific context, your lack of experiential evidence does leave you unable to be fully open-minded about the subject at hand.

[Xooxe]

I love pot, but I haven't smoked it in a long time because I can't read, think, socialise, or much else that I like doing when I'm on it.

That said, I've got awesome memories from when I was a teenager and used to get high and go exploring with friends. That's all we did. Get high and go and find new places. Looking back, none of that time was wasted. It's just when you end up getting your own place and you can be as high as you like and do nothing but watch films and listen to music that it becomes boring as hell.