the Joe Stack Manifesto

[Triple Zero]

speaking as someone once self employed and trying to deal with taxes... holy shit.  The whole system is designed to screw you over unless you have enough money to hire a squad of people to find the loopholes for you.

really? a squad? maybe fees are completely different over there, but here, if I want someone to do my taxes for me, it'll cost me €50-100, depending on whether I know a guy or have to pay a freelance accountant.

so from there it is simple arithmetic, is the fee less than what I stand to gain in properly filling out my taxes?

also offset by the amount of time it would cost you to do it yourself and whether you think you could spend that time more useful. for example some people I used to work for had their small IT businesses employee taxes stuff done by an account also for €50/month or so. which was a smart move because it allowed them to simply focus on running the business, acquiring customers, planning and doing management things. except my last boss was an idiot when it came to managing and planning so the company died a slow death anyway, but at least it wasn't the taxes that screwed him over!

[E.O.T.]

I LOVE

          a good vigilante movie. although the name, "Joe Stack" is a great character title, this won't be a very inspiring story. as much as i can feel for the frustration and rage, all the pure and honest goals are missed. as Doktor Howl stated - fucked his family in the end; nice angle, Joe.
          if we believe the content of the suicide 'manifesto/ letter', then in the end, he was only, or mostly, concerned that the "man" wasn't gonna take him, not that he'd achieve anything. I'm waiting for a lot more investigation into this to even try to get the real picture.
          from all the complex drama built around the Oklahoma City bombing in "news" headlines and television "reporting", focused on creating politically useful boogeymen, we find mountains of evidence to suggest that our own government not only knew about this potential assault but most probably allowed if not created it's occurrence.
          but, maybe it's as simple as him being a nutjob and man, what a world we live in. I'll accept that too if that's how the chips stack. "terrorist" is such an elastic term at this point it's nearly meaningless.

WHEN READING

          the 'manifesto' as well as certain other details of what's available, i cannot help but think of Theodore 'Ted' Kaczynski, the infamous 'unibomber'. In a really fantastic documentary called "the net", correspondence between the filmaker and Kaczynski brings to light Kaczynski's careful insistence that NO VERSION of the printed 'unibomber' manifesto is actually accurate to what he himself wrote. Was Joe Stack's letter really called a manifesto by him or is that created by those who create what they want us to read? For the record, I'm jumping over the, i'm assuming, OBVIOUS that ya gotta be "crazy" to be out there blowing shit with people in it up just to make a point. Kaczynski was also tipped of to authorities by family. Were the Feds waiting for it/ allowing it to happen for a useful story? Unlike Kaczynski's writing, Joe's is rather incoherent, is this post design or just a final hour "rant", a concept he acknowledges? Why not youtube? Why not outline why he's willing to murder the arguably 'random' folks in the building, or even address that? VS, leave his note and fly his plane into the desert to die?
          what about the burning of his house? i don't believe it's mentioned in his manifesto, unless i missed it (it was kinda painful to keep reading in light of its rambling) - last minute idea for ka-bang? or, having been informed by his wife, part of a "bigger, more sensational" picture arranged by the feds? "quick Smithburg, we need a whole shabang that's both media and movie worthy, now get yer people and GO!" "o.k. boss, how 'bout he burns his home before riding off into the sunset?!" "perfect!, we'll use it! Lefty, get yer guys out there and burn down his house, make it look like he did it and escort his wife and kid there to see it for the cameras" - i don't have a t.v., maybe the neighbors have put this on the books and it's what it is. - but still that, for this worked my ass off all my life "Joe Stack", why does he fuck his family too? that doesn't fit the puzzle all that perfectly. o.k, he admits that he can't write but he's RIGHT too, he can't be a total moron.
          if this were a performance 'art' aktion, they'd have hit some curious nerves. Current high levels of emotion in anti- government movement (tea-bagger concern), TAXES - at tax time (which is like discussing religion EVER with my midwest family) and of course, terrorism - and ultimately the end picture is if you're frustrated to the point of implosion/ (+) explosion in the face of our current Nation's state, not calmly in cue at the time of collapse, you're a nut job and ultimately ACTION itself, gets the nutjob, terrorist label. Not that, after this, anyone's gonna seriously fly ANOTHER plane into a government building, but this is vivid campaign material.

[E.O.T.]

[quoteNot that, after this, anyone's gonna seriously fly ANOTHER plane into a government building, but this is vivid campaign material.

I'm with you on most of that EOT 'part from that bit. Just you watch. Flying light aircraft into "the man" is the new black this season.
[/quote]



          MEDIA COVER UP - Joe was sporting the hottest spring fashion

ALSO

          as someone said here, "BIGGER PLANE"

[President Television]

Not that, after this, anyone's gonna seriously fly ANOTHER plane into a government building, but this is vivid campaign material.

I'm with you on most of that EOT 'part from that bit. Just you watch. Flying light aircraft into "the man" is the new black this season.

         MEDIA COVER UP - Joe was sporting the hottest spring fashion

ALSO

         as someone said here, "BIGGER PLANE"

A380?

[Payne]

Beluga, or GTFO.

[President Television]

"yo dawg, i herd you like planes, so I put a plane in my plane so i can crash while I crash"

[Payne]

Could not remember the name. That's the one that carries the wings to/from? airbus wales right? Man, that sucker should not fly. I call witchcraft.

Yes, it is. And as I understand it, it flies fine because for all its size it's not actually heavier - just more drag from the cross section. One could also assume that the curvature of the upper body actually produces much more lift than a standard body.

[Payne]

People keep telling me, but I keep hearing:

Yes, it is. And as I understand it, it flies fine because for all its size it's not actually heavier - just more drag from the virgin nailed to the cross section. One could also assume that the curvature of the upper body, wherin is located the dread portal to the nether regions, actually produces much more lift than a standard body, because its carried aloft by the teeming screeching deamon hoards of hell.

Well, aerodynamics truly is a frightning and dark science I suppose.

[Cain]

Stack's manifesto reads like a mildly retarded rant by Jim Hightower.

Also, that looked like a controlled demolition to me.  Has anyone sought Alex Jones for his expert opinion?

[Triple Zero]

It was an inside job. I think there was gold buried beneath that building.

[LMNO]

So, here's what this sounds like, to me.

First, he tries to exploit a loophole in the tax code with his friends, with the express intent of exposing the loophole. 
First mistake: He assumed that because he found the loophole, the gvt would allow him to exploit it after they became aware.
Second mistake: He did not have his "actual" taxes available to give the gvt when they said, "ha, ha, very funny.  Now pay up".  If you're pretty sure it's just an object lesson, have back up.

Then, before he recovered from that, he decided to become an independent engineer.
Third mistake: Was not financially stable before becoming a work-for-hire contractor.

Then, the IRS changes the definition of "independent" and "employee". 
Fourth mistake: He apparently decided to believe that what the law stated was not what would be enforced.

Fifth mistake: He decided to continue on as a contractor.

Sixth mistake: He didn't understand the rules behind an IRA.

Seventh mistake: Not filing because he "didn't think he had to" due to negative income.

He did get screwed over by his accountant, but the fact that he admittedly have both "undocumented income" and "poor records" of tax related purchases, so... Eighth mistake: Not being a totally anal fuck about all tax-related issues, due to previous behavior of the government.


Yeah, so... Yeah. 

I agree that the tax code is fucked up, and the Kafka-esque wheels of the government can truly fuck up a person.  But I also have to say that if you know the gvt will totally fuck you up if you don't comply, then it makes good sense to both try to change the system and at the same time, comply until the rules change.

[Elder Iptuous]

agreed...
i got the impression the he was simply the 'martyr type' all along....
i don't think his 'mistakes' were made out of ignorance from what i've read.  he just didn't like the machine, so he decided to stick his pecker in the gears to show how bad it is, then once he'd been disfigured, went for the coup de grace.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Also, not paying your taxes is not a huge deal as long as you communicate with the IRS about it. They're pretty decent, in fact, and will let you take years to pay off back taxes. The penalties aren't even that steep.

[Cain]

Sounds like the IRS aren't entirely stupid then.  Getting back the money at a later date is better than getting back nothing at all.  Strangely enough (or not), a lot of eastern European criminal gangs work along the same lines.

[LMNO]

Pretty much.

In fact, from what I've read about most violent tax offenders, they more or less came to the conclusion that the tax laws, because they were unfair, didn't apply to them. 

And from there, somehow believed that, despite all contrary evidence, that if they just made a loud enough noise about the unfairness, then there would be a retroactive amnesty.

For people who claimed to know how the political system worked in such precise detail, they missed a big aspect of it.