You have got to be fucking kidding me

[LMNO]

Also punishes addicts who get pregnant.  Who, I must mention at the sake of redundancy, all happen to be female.

[Freeky]

Ah? Oh.

[LMNO]

Technically, and I know from experience, all miscarriges are termed "abortions".  Srsly.


Regardless of what might have caused them.  If it can be shown that the mother's habits led to the miscarriage, whether leaping down a flight of stairs headfirst, or shooting heroin, then the mother can be charged with murder if the pregnancy does not take.


Please also note that 1 in 4 pregnancies miscarry, for various reasons.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Yeah. Basically, it's a horrible law with serious potential for misuse, especially in a state that is heavily influenced by a culture that often treats women like chattel whose only value is in bearing children.

[-Kel-]

Yeah. Basically, it's a horrible law with serious potential for misuse, especially in a state that is heavily influenced by a culture that often treats women like chattel whose only value is in bearing children.

ok ok, i think you're going over board here. I was born here and i have lived here most of my life. Women do not get treated like that here.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Yeah. Basically, it's a horrible law with serious potential for misuse, especially in a state that is heavily influenced by a culture that often treats women like chattel whose only value is in bearing children.

ok ok, i think you're going over board here. I was born here and i have lived here most of my life. Women do not get treated like that here.

Not all women, and certainly it's not common in SLC, which is fairly typical of any large urban area. Rural and small town Utah is another story. My mom's family is from Utah, a fuckton of my friends are from Utah. There ARE polygamist towns in Utah, there ARE Fundamentalist Mormons, there IS the treatment of women as chattel. Those are the areas where this law will be used to abuse/control women; areas where there is already a problem.

[-Kel-]

Not all women, and certainly it's not common in SLC, which is fairly typical of any large urban area. Rural and small town Utah is another story. My mom's family is from Utah, a fuckton of my friends are from Utah. There ARE polygamist towns in Utah,

no shit?! really?!

there ARE Fundamentalist Mormons,

OMG!! NO!!!

there IS the treatment of women as chattel. Those are the areas where this law will be used to abuse/control women; areas where there is already a problem.

i do live in utah.

most of them are being driven out of utah, and many have moved to AZ and CO.

I have friends who also grew up in fundamental mormon compounds. They escaped but one of the good things the government does here is cracking down on shit like that.

http://www.sltrib.com/polygamy

[LMNO]

Let's not focus on Utah or Mormonism here.

Let's look at the internet.

Let's look at websites devoted to pregnancy.

A large amount of them are written from a standpoint of "IF YOU HAVE A SINGLE CUP OF COFFEE FROM THE MOMENT OF CONCEPTION, YOU ARE HARMING YOUR BABY!"

Now, re-consider the measure passed, using this kind of mentality.

For some people, who tend to be very loud, they conclude that when a woman is pregnant, they become nothing more than faulty incubators.

[-Kel-]

Let's not focus on Utah or Mormonism here.

Let's look at the internet.

Let's look at websites devoted to pregnancy.

A large amount of them are written from a standpoint of "IF YOU HAVE A SINGLE CUP OF COFFEE FROM THE MOMENT OF CONCEPTION, YOU ARE HARMING YOUR BABY!"

Now, re-consider the measure passed, using this kind of mentality.

For some people, who tend to be very loud, they conclude that when a woman is pregnant, they become nothing more than faulty incubators.

thank you. i think Nigel and I agree upon what is going on here but since we are looking at it from different angles we are arguing about stuff that doesn't have too much weight.

I think it's a messed up bill because it can be abused by anyone and this bill was made because a woman here paid a man to beat her in the stomach for $150 so she would mis-carry. He got jail time, she did not.

I don't think this bill should of been passed at all.

[AFK]

It's bad enough as it is for a woman who miscarries.  She will have a tendency to question herself anyway.  Did she do this wrong, did she do too much of that, not enough of this....

And then for a law to come along and codify and "legitimize" and prosecute that second-guessing.

And there is no shortage of scum-bag lawyers out there who will represent the scum bag husbands/boy-friends or interest groups who want to punish the woman for doing something wrong....

Fucking sad doesn't cover it. 

[Requia ☣]

Technically, and I know from experience, all miscarriges are termed "abortions".  Srsly.


Regardless of what might have caused them.  If it can be shown that the mother's habits led to the miscarriage, whether leaping down a flight of stairs headfirst, or shooting heroin, then the mother can be charged with murder if the pregnancy does not take.


Please also note that 1 in 4 pregnancies miscarry, for various reasons.

Which is why the 'reckless' part got taken out.