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TESTEMONAIL:  Right and Discordianism allows room for personal interpretation. You have your theories and I have mine. Unlike Christianity, Discordia allows room for ideas and opinions, and mine is well-informed and based on ancient philosophy and theology, so, my neo-Discordian friends, open your minds to my interpretation and I will open my mind to yours. That's fair enough, right? Just claiming to be discordian should mean that your mind is open and willing to learn and share ideas. You guys are fucking bashing me and your laughing at my theologies and my friends know what's up and are laughing at you and honestly this is my last shot at putting a label on my belief structure and your making me lose all hope of ever finding a ideological group I can relate to because you don't even know what the fuck I'm talking about and everything I have said is based on the founding principals of real Discordianism. Expand your mind.

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So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?

Started by Doktor Howl, May 03, 2010, 06:21:40 PM

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Jasper

Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 03, 2010, 08:40:55 PM
Quote from: Sigmatic on May 03, 2010, 08:39:58 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 03, 2010, 08:38:47 PM
Quote from: Sigmatic on May 03, 2010, 08:33:21 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 03, 2010, 08:31:24 PM
Quote from: Sigmatic on May 03, 2010, 08:29:21 PM
They help the other 94% of our planetary cohabs get with the fucking program, is what.  Without an ideology to guide them, they'd go the way of the neandertals.

I'm quite sure that's the rationalization.

And it sure helped in 1939.

Oh, point.

So how do you propose we keep ideologies from the masses? 

I don't.  I am uninterested in saving the masses.

I'd settle for saving myself from the masses.

That's a different matter entirely.  I think the trick is to find the blind spots, the holes, in their ideology, and camp out there.

Yeah, that sounds nice.  But, how does that look in practice?

Doktor Howl

Quote from: The Lord and Lady Omnibus Fuck on May 03, 2010, 08:40:18 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 03, 2010, 08:38:47 PM
Quote from: Sigmatic on May 03, 2010, 08:33:21 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 03, 2010, 08:31:24 PM
Quote from: Sigmatic on May 03, 2010, 08:29:21 PM
They help the other 94% of our planetary cohabs get with the fucking program, is what.  Without an ideology to guide them, they'd go the way of the neandertals.

I'm quite sure that's the rationalization.

And it sure helped in 1939.

Oh, point.

So how do you propose we keep ideologies from the masses?  

I don't.  I am uninterested in saving the masses.

That's Payne's job, anyway, and he's dead.

He didn't learn from Curly's fate.  Or Jesus.  Or MLK.  Or Gandhi.  Or Malcolm X.  Or John Dillinger.

The masses don't want to be saved, and they'll kill you if you try.
Molon Lube

That One Guy

Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 03, 2010, 08:39:35 PM
Quote from: Sigmatic on May 03, 2010, 08:38:05 PM
Quote from: LMNO on May 03, 2010, 08:35:19 PM
Quote from: Sigmatic on May 03, 2010, 08:33:21 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 03, 2010, 08:31:24 PM
Quote from: Sigmatic on May 03, 2010, 08:29:21 PM
They help the other 94% of our planetary cohabs get with the fucking program, is what.  Without an ideology to guide them, they'd go the way of the neandertals.

I'm quite sure that's the rationalization.

And it sure helped in 1939.

Oh, point.

So how do you propose we keep ideologies from the masses? 

At the risk of sounding pinealist, by keeping them confused.

Sounds workable.

Now we need a formula to induce severe cognitive dissonance on a nationwide scale.

I'm going to disagree, and state that any confusion we engender should be aimed at making their ideologies fail faster.

This just makes me think of the classic Daffy vs. Bugs cartoon where they're going at it over what hunting season it is - Rabbit Season! Duck Season! Rabbit Season!

... and then Bugs confuses Daffy into forcing Fudd to shoot him because he becomes CONVINCED it's Duck Season.

THAT is how confusion should be used - make them blow their own damn fool heads off. It's the only way to wake them up that has a hope of working. And if it doesn't, at least they got their damn fool heads blown off while we laugh.
People of the United States! We are Unitarian Jihad! We can strike without warning. Pockets of reasonableness and harmony will appear as if from nowhere! Nice people will run the government again! There will be coffee and cookies in the Gandhi Room after the revolution.

Arguing with a Unitarian Universalist is like mud wrestling a pig. Pretty soon you realize the pig likes it.

Doktor Howl

Quote from: Sigmatic on May 03, 2010, 08:43:45 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 03, 2010, 08:40:55 PM
Quote from: Sigmatic on May 03, 2010, 08:39:58 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 03, 2010, 08:38:47 PM
Quote from: Sigmatic on May 03, 2010, 08:33:21 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 03, 2010, 08:31:24 PM
Quote from: Sigmatic on May 03, 2010, 08:29:21 PM
They help the other 94% of our planetary cohabs get with the fucking program, is what.  Without an ideology to guide them, they'd go the way of the neandertals.

I'm quite sure that's the rationalization.

And it sure helped in 1939.

Oh, point.

So how do you propose we keep ideologies from the masses? 

I don't.  I am uninterested in saving the masses.

I'd settle for saving myself from the masses.

That's a different matter entirely.  I think the trick is to find the blind spots, the holes, in their ideology, and camp out there.

Yeah, that sounds nice.  But, how does that look in practice?

I'm working for big oil, fucking off a lot for large bank, and being recognized as a "key player".

You tell me.
Molon Lube

Doktor Howl

Quote from: Kai on May 03, 2010, 08:42:12 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 03, 2010, 08:32:07 PM
Quote from: Kai on May 03, 2010, 08:30:27 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 03, 2010, 08:18:21 PM

Quote
Okay. So, I also identify as a Unitarian Universalist, Religious Naturalist and Insect Systematist. How are those things incompatible with Discordianism?

Which one of those do you DO, and which do you base your self-worth and/or personal existence on?

I don't stake my self worth or personal existence on identities.

Then we have a misunderstanding of terms.  We're arguing the same point.

Yet I still do identify as these things.

No, you may adhere to them, but you would still be Kai without them.

Contrast that with, say, Memnoch, who wouldn't exist if he couldn't be a "conservative".
Molon Lube

Doktor Howl

Quote from: That One Guy on May 03, 2010, 08:44:23 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 03, 2010, 08:39:35 PM
Quote from: Sigmatic on May 03, 2010, 08:38:05 PM
Quote from: LMNO on May 03, 2010, 08:35:19 PM
Quote from: Sigmatic on May 03, 2010, 08:33:21 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 03, 2010, 08:31:24 PM
Quote from: Sigmatic on May 03, 2010, 08:29:21 PM
They help the other 94% of our planetary cohabs get with the fucking program, is what.  Without an ideology to guide them, they'd go the way of the neandertals.

I'm quite sure that's the rationalization.

And it sure helped in 1939.

Oh, point.

So how do you propose we keep ideologies from the masses? 

At the risk of sounding pinealist, by keeping them confused.

Sounds workable.

Now we need a formula to induce severe cognitive dissonance on a nationwide scale.

I'm going to disagree, and state that any confusion we engender should be aimed at making their ideologies fail faster.

This just makes me think of the classic Daffy vs. Bugs cartoon where they're going at it over what hunting season it is - Rabbit Season! Duck Season! Rabbit Season!

... and then Bugs confuses Daffy into forcing Fudd to shoot him because he becomes CONVINCED it's Duck Season.

THAT is how confusion should be used - make them blow their own damn fool heads off. It's the only way to wake them up that has a hope of working. And if it doesn't, at least they got their damn fool heads blown off while we laugh.

Oh, yeeeeah.  That gives me an idea.
Molon Lube

LMNO

Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 03, 2010, 08:39:35 PM
Quote from: Sigmatic on May 03, 2010, 08:38:05 PM
Quote from: LMNO on May 03, 2010, 08:35:19 PM
Quote from: Sigmatic on May 03, 2010, 08:33:21 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 03, 2010, 08:31:24 PM
Quote from: Sigmatic on May 03, 2010, 08:29:21 PM
They help the other 94% of our planetary cohabs get with the fucking program, is what.  Without an ideology to guide them, they'd go the way of the neandertals.

I'm quite sure that's the rationalization.

And it sure helped in 1939.

Oh, point.

So how do you propose we keep ideologies from the masses? 

At the risk of sounding pinealist, by keeping them confused.

Sounds workable.

Now we need a formula to induce severe cognitive dissonance on a nationwide scale.

I'm going to disagree, and state that any confusion we engender should be aimed at making their ideologies fail faster.

This.  For certain.

Doktor Howl

Quote from: LMNO on May 03, 2010, 08:47:41 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 03, 2010, 08:39:35 PM
Quote from: Sigmatic on May 03, 2010, 08:38:05 PM
Quote from: LMNO on May 03, 2010, 08:35:19 PM
Quote from: Sigmatic on May 03, 2010, 08:33:21 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 03, 2010, 08:31:24 PM
Quote from: Sigmatic on May 03, 2010, 08:29:21 PM
They help the other 94% of our planetary cohabs get with the fucking program, is what.  Without an ideology to guide them, they'd go the way of the neandertals.

I'm quite sure that's the rationalization.

And it sure helped in 1939.

Oh, point.

So how do you propose we keep ideologies from the masses? 

At the risk of sounding pinealist, by keeping them confused.

Sounds workable.

Now we need a formula to induce severe cognitive dissonance on a nationwide scale.

I'm going to disagree, and state that any confusion we engender should be aimed at making their ideologies fail faster.

This.  For certain.

Yep.  We're Discordians (root word is what, again?), not the Save The Monkeys Foundation.
Molon Lube

Kai

Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 03, 2010, 08:46:21 PM
Quote from: Kai on May 03, 2010, 08:42:12 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 03, 2010, 08:32:07 PM
Quote from: Kai on May 03, 2010, 08:30:27 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 03, 2010, 08:18:21 PM

Quote
Okay. So, I also identify as a Unitarian Universalist, Religious Naturalist and Insect Systematist. How are those things incompatible with Discordianism?

Which one of those do you DO, and which do you base your self-worth and/or personal existence on?

I don't stake my self worth or personal existence on identities.

Then we have a misunderstanding of terms.  We're arguing the same point.

Yet I still do identify as these things.

No, you may adhere to them, but you would still be Kai without them.

Contrast that with, say, Memnoch, who wouldn't exist if he couldn't be a "conservative".

Okay, I think I agree with you. We had a misunderstanding of terms.
If there is magic on this planet, it is contained in water. --Loren Eisley, The Immense Journey

Her Royal Majesty's Chief of Insect Genitalia Dissection
Grand Visser of the Six Legged Class
Chanticleer of the Holometabola Clade Church, Diptera Parish

Jasper

QuoteYep.  We're Discordians (root word is what, again?), not the Save The Monkeys Foundation.

One thing I enjoyed about the original recipe PD is how it defines Discordia in five ways.  You know, Chaos, Discord, Confusion, Bureaucracy, Aftermath.  

Focusing only on the 'discord' aspect as the basis for the whole religion is similar to the Eristic delusion.

Doktor Howl

Quote from: Kai on May 03, 2010, 08:51:05 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 03, 2010, 08:46:21 PM
Quote from: Kai on May 03, 2010, 08:42:12 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 03, 2010, 08:32:07 PM
Quote from: Kai on May 03, 2010, 08:30:27 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 03, 2010, 08:18:21 PM

Quote
Okay. So, I also identify as a Unitarian Universalist, Religious Naturalist and Insect Systematist. How are those things incompatible with Discordianism?

Which one of those do you DO, and which do you base your self-worth and/or personal existence on?

I don't stake my self worth or personal existence on identities.

Then we have a misunderstanding of terms.  We're arguing the same point.

Yet I still do identify as these things.

No, you may adhere to them, but you would still be Kai without them.

Contrast that with, say, Memnoch, who wouldn't exist if he couldn't be a "conservative".

Okay, I think I agree with you. We had a misunderstanding of terms.

Yep.  If you took away my job, my Jeep, my guns, my horrible filthy associates...I'd still be me.

Most people here would still be themselves.

Interesting point:  When dealing with outlandish noobs, we could ask them what they'd be without Discordianism.
Molon Lube

Doktor Howl

Quote from: Sigmatic on May 03, 2010, 08:52:50 PM
QuoteYep.  We're Discordians (root word is what, again?), not the Save The Monkeys Foundation.

One thing I enjoyed about the original recipe PD is how it defines Discordia in five ways.  You know, Chaos, Discord, Confusion, Bureaucracy, Aftermath.  

Focusing only on the 'discord' aspect as the basis for the whole religion is similar to the Eristic delusion.

Couple of things:  I don't put any stock in the "Eristic delusion".  It sounds like someone trying to hippie out of the darker side of chaos.

Second thing:  I never said "only".  I asked what the root word was.  There's obviously plenty more to it.
Molon Lube

P3nT4gR4m

Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 03, 2010, 08:53:07 PM

Interesting point:  When dealing with outlandish noobs, we could ask them what they'd be without Discordianism.


POINT!

What am I without Discordianism? Same twisted little fuck but with less people on my wavelength. :lulz:

I'm up to my arse in Brexit Numpties, but I want more.  Target-rich environments are the new sexy.
Not actually a meat product.
Ass-Kicking & Foot-Stomping Ancient Master of SHIT FUCK FUCK FUCK
Awful and Bent Behemothic Results of Last Night's Painful Squat.
High Altitude Haggis-Filled Sex Bucket From Beyond Time and Space.
Internet Monkey Person of Filthy and Immoral Pygmy-Porn Wart Contagion
Octomom Auxillary Heat Exchanger Repairman
walking the fine line line between genius and batshit fucking crazy

"computation is a pattern in the spacetime arrangement of particles, and it's not the particles but the pattern that really matters! Matter doesn't matter." -- Max Tegmark

Jasper

Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 03, 2010, 08:54:40 PM
Quote from: Sigmatic on May 03, 2010, 08:52:50 PM
QuoteYep.  We're Discordians (root word is what, again?), not the Save The Monkeys Foundation.

One thing I enjoyed about the original recipe PD is how it defines Discordia in five ways.  You know, Chaos, Discord, Confusion, Bureaucracy, Aftermath.  

Focusing only on the 'discord' aspect as the basis for the whole religion is similar to the Eristic delusion.

Couple of things:  I don't put any stock in the "Eristic delusion".  It sounds like someone trying to hippie out of the darker side of chaos.

Second thing:  I never said "only".  I asked what the root word was.  There's obviously plenty more to it.

"In some sense".   Discordia is preeminently a postmodern religion.  Lacking an authoritative doctrine is what makes it ideal for breaking out of the monkey traps and simultaneously using an undue amount of laughable hippie crap.

Doktor Howl

Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on May 03, 2010, 09:00:59 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 03, 2010, 08:53:07 PM

Interesting point:  When dealing with outlandish noobs, we could ask them what they'd be without Discordianism.


POINT!

What am I without Discordianism? Same twisted little fuck but with less people on my wavelength. :lulz:

This.  I'm still me.  The only difference is, I'd have less people to laugh with.
Molon Lube