The Five Suggestions

[Dimocritus]

So, with all the ancient and modern religious and secular codes of conduct floating around, it seems not a single one has been able to get it right. I mean, sure, murder is bad and all, but one can do worse, if one was so inclined. So, me being me (see: pretentious douche with too much time on his hands), I have taken it upon myself to rearrange (and in many cases, outright eliminate) many of these rules, and put them in the proper order according to severity. Unlike something like the ten commandments, these are hardly as strict, and are less cut and dry. Think of them more as suggestions. (please, keep in mind there is a matter of degree involved, as well as situational modifiers that certainly influence the effectiveness of this arrangement)

1. Lying, spreading lies, spreading mistruths. These are the worst of all sins, crimes, etc.. The reason for this is The Lies ability to spread, in many cases, completely unnoticed. The Lie has the potential to effect the most people. The Lie leads to all other crimes, sins, etc.. Without the lie, there is no sin. Its ability to spread rapidly and to indeterminable reaches, coupled with the fact that it is so difficult to detect (even when lying to ones self) makes it the most dangerous.

2. Murder. Cold blooded murder is bad, but not as bad as the lie. The murder of an individual can effect many people, but no more than those directly involved with the victims life. If the victim is a major player in a certain political movement, or even a rock-star, their murder might be able to effect many people, but countries have crumbled, and religions have commited countless atrocities based on The Lie, therefore, murder remains second on the list.

3. Theft. Theft goes last, because it effects the fewest people in a negative or long-lasting way. Theft, in many ways, stems from The Lie. One must lie to ones self in order to commit theft. They must tell themselves that they are entitled to whatever it is that they are stealing, and then believe their own bullshit.

4. Of course, there are exceptions. The man who steals rice to feed his family. The man who kills for the safety of many (I can't think of any exceptions for The Lie). I think we can justify these actions like this: If one has no other option or course of action to save himself, his family, or other loved ones from death, or a condition that can lead to death, he has the right to commit murder or theft. ONLY if there is no other course of action (no lying to yourself to justify it).

5. And, there is a matter of degree. A Small Lie may not affect as many people as a Big Murder, but The Big Lie is always worse than the Big Murder. A Big Theft may be worse than a Small Murder etc..

When determining these things on the Big scale, The Lie is always worse. However, not everything remains on the Big scale. We can have Small lies, Medium Murders etc.. What's worse? Really, whatever effects the most people in a negative way for the longest amount of time (thus The Lie coming first. Mankind has seen many people come and go, and many objects coveted, but The Lies of centuries past still stick with us strong, and continue to negatively impact humanity, even after so many years).

[Richter]

Short, to the point, and catchy

[Jasper]

In this system, is it considered 'bad' to commit suicide?

But I like it.  It's extremely simple, yet not simplistic.  Simple systems fail less often, and it's important to have an ethical system with as few paradoxes and failures as possible.  Complex philosophical ethics fail far too often for my liking.

[Dimocritus]

In this system, is it considered 'bad' to commit suicide?

It depends on how much of a negative impact it would have on any number of individuals. If you have an entire family depending on you, then yes.

[Doktor Howl]

I'd still put murder above lies, in the order of evil.

[Dimocritus]

I'd still put murder above lies, in the order of evil.

I dunno. I would think that murder stems from lies, in the sense that you need to lie to yourself in order to convince yourself or others that the person in question deserves to die.

[Jasper]

Okay, it actually makes a bit of sense to weigh suicide in terms of murder.  Someone dies because of your actions, and it has all the same negative effects.

I've always been a fan of teleological ethics.  Why say "X should never be done on principle", why not "I shouldn't do x right now because of possible outcome y."?

In many cases lying isn't as bad as killing, however.  Therefore "Big Lies" should include things like "this war is justified and unavoidable".

[Doktor Howl]

I'd still put murder above lies, in the order of evil.

I dunno. I would think that murder stems from lies, in the sense that you need to lie to yourself in order to convince yourself or others that the person in question deserves to die.

Um.

Okay, leaving now.

Dok,
Working on self-restraint.

[Dimocritus]

I'd still put murder above lies, in the order of evil.

I dunno. I would think that murder stems from lies, in the sense that you need to lie to yourself in order to convince yourself or others that the person in question deserves to die.

Um.

Okay, leaving now.

Dok,
Working on self-restraint.

Self restraint? LEMME HAVE IT!!!

[Eater of Clowns]

I forget where I've heard it specifically, but this reminds me of the whole "theft is the only sin" idea.
If you lie, you steal someone's right to the truth.
If you murder, you steal someone's right to live.
It uses the same idea of lying being that which causes murder.  So if you combine the two it becomes almost a cyclical or multidirectional model.  Murder might be based from lies and theft, but it could stand alone as well.

ETA:  The two books I saw it in were The Stand and The Kite Runner, I recall now.

[Doktor Howl]

I forget where I've heard it specifically, but this reminds me of the whole "theft is the only sin" idea.
If you lie, you steal someone's right to the truth.
If you murder, you steal someone's right to live.
It uses the same idea of lying being that which causes murder.  So if you combine the two it becomes almost a cyclical or multidirectional model.  Murder might be based from lies and theft, but it could stand alone as well.

ETA:  The two books I saw it in were The Stand and The Kite Runner, I recall now.

Words mean nothing.  Just blend them all up until principles and values are all DOUBLEPLUS GOOD.

[Salty]

I hate liars, known too many compulsive, pathological types.

People capable of murder, or rather incapable of restraining themselves, are giving in to a very honest desire. It "solves the problem". People like to kill. They like seeing killing and do their part to justify it, legalize it whenever possible, institutionalize it. I don't think many murderers have to talk themselves INTO killing. More likely, people bury their desire to kill beneath lies of morality, adherence to avoiding taboo lines of thought, because given the choice, the freedom to do so without reprocussions many people would give in.

And maybe i'm fucked in the head, but I think that if you haven't met someone who brought out the very real and honest desire to strangle them...sorry lost my train of thought there. Just wait...is that my point? Is that cynical, to think that among 6+ billion people there's at least 1 person out there we would just rather not have around? 

The lie is that SOME PEOPLE want that, and OTHER PEOPLE don't. We all have that capacity. What some of us lack is the humanity, the evolved primate state of being to say "Hey, that's not going to fix anything."

[Placid Dingo]

I'd sooner be lied to.

[Rumckle]

(I can't think of any exceptions for The Lie)

That old Chestnut discussed in and about Kant, perhaps? Lying to a murderer about the location of his intended victim.

But Placid dingo does have a point, I'd sooner be lied to than killed. I find it hard to justify calling something the ultimate evil just because some other evils can stem from it. For instance we could also say that lies can stem from murder, very few people will freely admit to murder in today's society.

Nor do I think that murder always stems from lies, people may be wrong for thinking they should murder someone, but that does not necessarily mean they are lying to themselves/being lied to, it just means they have poor rationale.

[LMNO]

Also, lies live in the heart of jokes, pranks, good art, bad art, and being polite to people you don't like.