BREAKING: NEW YORK TIME WRITES COMPLETELY UNBIASED ARTICLE ABOUT GUNS!

[Faust]

I understand its a basic right over there, what's the appeal, is it mostly a self defence issue?

Self-defense is the probably main thing in my opinion.  The police can't be everywhere, and usually by the time they get there the crime has already happened, so ultimate responsibility for your defense falls on you.  Guns are an equalizer -- they allow a little old lady to fend off a 250 lb mugger.

Gun deaths aren't worse than other kinds of deaths.  If someone wants to commit a violent crime, they will do so whether or not they have access to guns, but on the other hand many crime sprees have been cut short because a would-be victim was armed.

That said, there are a lot of things I would like to see tightened up, as in I want to, as much as possible, be sure that the people who own guns are law-abiding and are proficient in the safe operation of a gun.

But has it not also increased the crime rate significantly by allowing more dangerous crime to be perpetrated by the impulsive? That's probably not a fair thing to link to it. Your population is huge compared to over here and there is a completely different social mentality as well.

[Jasper]

That's true.  Our values tend to 'fit' gun ownership.  We value self-defense quite highly, and generally speaking on an individual basis, we're fond of our freedoms regardless of whether those freedoms help or harm us in the big picture.

[Faust]

That's true.  Our values tend to 'fit' gun ownership.  We value self-defense quite highly, and generally speaking on an individual basis, we're fond of our freedoms regardless of whether those freedoms help or harm us in the big picture.

Here we have a guilt culture. Low violent crime so less need of self defence. High drug problem. You know the friend everyone has who has a conflict between really old fashioned religious repression, and the need to do stuff like heavy drugs, that's basically Ireland. I'm surprised guns weren't legalised here considering their symbolic connotations with kicking the brits out.

[Requia ☣]

Oh shit.  Any word on if I can get me a BMG?

Sig,
Because I would consider moving there.

Browning would have to make new ones, guns manufactured before the law don't count as far as I can tell (requires a made in Utah symbol added to the serial number at time of manufacture), but I think it'd be allowed if the fed doesn't win the inevitable SCOTUS case over this.

But how are you gonna afford to shoot a BMG?  What I want is a nice fully automatic .22.  Not really useful for anything but target practice, but hey, 20 bucks buys 400 rounds.   

[Elder Iptuous]

Oh shit.  Any word on if I can get me a BMG?

Sig,
Because I would consider moving there.

Browning would have to make new ones, guns manufactured before the law don't count as far as I can tell (requires a made in Utah symbol added to the serial number at time of manufacture), but I think it'd be allowed if the fed doesn't win the inevitable SCOTUS case over this.

But how are you gonna afford to shoot a BMG?  What I want is a nice fully automatic .22.  Not really useful for anything but target practice, but hey, 20 bucks buys 400 rounds.   

assuming the law in Utah is like the one in Montana that asserts exemption from interstate commerce based gun control if it is made in and stays in the state, then they still do not allow any firearm that fires more than one projectile with a single pull of the trigger (i.e. machine gun).
if you want .50 BMG, but don't care about fully automatic, then you don't have a problem anyways.  long range precision shoots are kinda like machining.  a lot of setup, and then a quick action, then analysis of the event.  you don't burn through an ass load of ammo, if you're doing it right.

as far as the automatic .22lr, the exemplar of that category is the American 180, originally marketed for prison guards.  prices are currently hovering a little under 9,000.  if you want to know details of how to purchase class III weapons, i can PM you. 

[Requia ☣]

I know how to do it, I just don't want to pay nine grand for something that's only worth a fraction of that just because the feds won't let us have new weapons.

[Elder Iptuous]

I know how to do it, I just don't want to pay nine grand for something that's only worth a fraction of that just because the feds won't let us have new weapons.

well, you're really just paying for the tax stamp.  and those are worth what the market says, i guess.
there are less expensive ways of going 22lr auto.  i believe there are 22 conversion kits for the ingrams.  that'd knock it down to under three grand if you shop around a bit...

I'm still waiting for the Montana law to be tested with some NFA that is allowed under the new law.
last i heard they're looking for someone with a squeaky clean record to give it a go making cans or sbr's or something.

[Requia ☣]

Ok you're right, the Utah law only applies to semi automatics, shows me for trusting the newspapers.

This seems really pointless.  The only federal restriction that this law would actually lift that I can think of would be a short barreled rifle, and those you can get with a new tax stamp.

As for the tax stamp, the stamp is only 200, the reason automatics are so expensive is they won't let any new ones enter the market (see the Hughes ammendment), which means artificial scarcity drives up the prices.

[Jasper]

I would get my gold wire rimmed glasses, buckle down, and do accounting just to fund the ammo.

Firing stuff like that gives me a chubby.

[Shibboleet The Annihilator]

I don't recall a gun thread on the principia before, I've been meaning to ask about it. The european media portrays ye yanks as casually shooting at each other on a daily basis to pass the time. Now I'd personally be heavily biased against legal gun ownership here for two reasons, I don't like the idea of the stupid being armed and because we have had record of no school shootings and the only gun deaths of the last ten years here have been drug related.
I understand its a basic right over there, what's the appeal, is it mostly a self defence issue?

It's a check against the government (among other things) and it's part of our constitution. If the government ever begins to abuse the citizens, the citizens can forcibly remove the government if necessary. Granted, if there was going to be a violent overthrow 1) the government wouldn't give a shit about the constitution and 2) the citizens wouldn't give a shit what the government says is legal.

A lot of people argue against guns, but the thing is where guns are strictly controlled crime always seems to go up and where they are not as restricted, crime tends to be lower. Yes, it would reduce gun deaths if there were no guns, but there are guns, lots of them. If you take away the guns, people just move on to other things like knives, screwdrivers, etc. like they do in Britain.

I do not believe violence and guns are related, if a society is violent and it has guns then it will use them. If it's violent and doesn't have guns, then they'll use something else. The only people who are affected by gun laws are the ones who care about what the law says which are not the people you should be worried about.

[Adios]

Big bore rifles are fun but for a real good time switch to muzzle loaders.

[Elder Iptuous]

i farted around with muzzle loaders once for extended hunting season benefits, plus it's just kinda neat.  But in the end they're a messy painintheass...  for my part, i'll take the breech loaded cartridge any day.

with your muzzle loaders, do you compete, or hunt, or what?

(apparently, they're also good for killing pederasts, too, remember?  )

[Adios]

i farted around with muzzle loaders once for extended hunting season benefits, plus it's just kinda neat.  But in the end they're a messy painintheass...  for my part, i'll take the breech loaded cartridge any day.

with your muzzle loaders, do you compete, or hunt, or what?

(apparently, they're also good for killing pederasts, too, remember?  )

I had a Pennsylvania Long Rifle and I hunted with it and just shot it for fun..45 cal. It was great for fall deer hunting.

[Elder Iptuous]

slick.
i've never shot one of those.
was it the type with the really low rake on the stock?

if you're into the old timey firearms, have you ever tried Cowboy Action Shooting?  It's great.  it's like LARPing with firearms... (in that you get to dress up stupid, and there is competition)

[Adios]

slick.
i've never shot one of those.
was it the type with the really low rake on the stock?

if you're into the old timey firearms, have you ever tried Cowboy Action Shooting?  It's great.  it's like LARPing with firearms... (in that you get to dress up stupid, and there is competition)

Or march in a kilt with a black powder loaded with powder and wadding and shoot it in the middle of town.