Author Topic: I'm actually optimistic about corporate personhood.  (Read 13895 times)

Requia ☣

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Re: I'm actually optimistic about corporate personhood.
« Reply #15 on: June 03, 2010, 04:58:45 am »
I think you probably need a few proofs of identity to register an LLC

More importantly, a corporation or LLC is missing one rather vital right of humanity.  A corporation is owned.  Having the right to sue people isn't going to do robots a lot of good if they stay slaves.
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Jasper

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Re: I'm actually optimistic about corporate personhood.
« Reply #16 on: June 03, 2010, 06:47:48 am »
That's why I started this thread, because this is at heart a political issue.

If LLCs gain full personhood (the good and the bad parts) then not only do corporations have more accountability, but machines have a means of emancipation.

LLCs being full people would have to mean they can be put in jail (in other words, suspended from any activity).  For an actual business, this would mean that the workers go home, the offices are closed, and the management's assets are frozen for a certain period.  The employees would receive paid leave on the company's dollar.

That would be an exceptionally harsh punitive measure for a business.  I for one would be glad to have it as an option.

For a machine intelligence, this would mean no internet, and no physical presence.  Free electricity on the government's dime though, if the entity wished to remain powered up.

LLCs would also have to be "killable", and able to be given the death penalty.   For a business, this would probably include punitive measures toward the management.  For a machine consciousness, it would mean revoke of citizen status at the lightest and destruction at the worst.  It would have to be a legal option for the safety of society. 

I do not know if there is a way to ensure that intelligent machines don't save backup copies of themselves abroad.  We would have to think of something really nasty to fight that sort of thing, probably.


Requia ☣

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Re: I'm actually optimistic about corporate personhood.
« Reply #17 on: June 03, 2010, 08:35:54 am »
Nothing you do to a corporation will matter as long as the people who run it get to keep all the money they payed themselves before the fact.  Which is pretty much the whole definition of an LLC.
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Reginald Ret

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Re: I'm actually optimistic about corporate personhood.
« Reply #18 on: June 03, 2010, 11:22:10 am »
Nothing you do to a corporation will matter as long as the people who run it get to keep all the money they payed themselves before the fact.  Which is pretty much the whole definition of an LLC.
Ehm, so letting the corporation continue to exist is better than destroying it?
You don't think profits will be lost when a corp gets shut down?
What are profits but the lifeblood of the corp?
If you make it less profitable to use unethical business practices then this is a good thing right?

you are trying to imply that the people running the corp will just start/join a new corp and go on doing what they were doing.
What will happen if every corp they work for gets shut down within a year?
They will either stop doing bad stuff or stop getting hired. either way less bad stuff is happening.
Is that not the purpose of legal accountability?

Why am i making everthing into a question?
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Requia ☣

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Re: I'm actually optimistic about corporate personhood.
« Reply #19 on: June 03, 2010, 11:35:53 am »
There are execs out there who have driven every company they ever touched into the ground, and still get jobs.  But more importantly, its the moral hazard thing.  Risk aversion requires there be some penalty for failure.  If the execs get to keep all the profits (million, sometimes billions) of their crimes, and just need a new job, then there's very little penalty.

And some stockholders *want* people like that in top positions.  It means short term gains, then you dump the (now more valuable) stock and let some sucker whose in it for the long haul lose his shirt when the company tanks/gets shut down.
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Reginald Ret

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Re: I'm actually optimistic about corporate personhood.
« Reply #20 on: June 03, 2010, 01:56:47 pm »
This can be solved by faster punishments.
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East Coast Hustle

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Re: I'm actually optimistic about corporate personhood.
« Reply #21 on: June 03, 2010, 04:53:15 pm »
Nothing you do to a corporation will matter as long as the people who run it get to keep all the money they payed themselves before the fact.  Which is pretty much the whole definition of an LLC.
Ehm, so letting the corporation continue to exist is better than destroying it?
You don't think profits will be lost when a corp gets shut down?
What are profits but the lifeblood of the corp?
If you make it less profitable to use unethical business practices then this is a good thing right?

you are trying to imply that the people running the corp will just start/join a new corp and go on doing what they were doing.
What will happen if every corp they work for gets shut down within a year?
They will either stop doing bad stuff or stop getting hired. either way less bad stuff is happening.
Is that not the purpose of legal accountability?

Why am i making everthing into a question?

did you wake up on the retarded side of the bed today, or are you one of those anti-corporate "anarchists"?

Also, as far as giving machines rights goes, that's probably the worst idea I've heard since carbonated milk.
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Requia ☣

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Re: I'm actually optimistic about corporate personhood.
« Reply #22 on: June 03, 2010, 06:57:21 pm »
This can be solved by faster punishments.

Er, no, no it can't.  Unless they get caught immediately (which is almost never the case).
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Jasper

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Re: I'm actually optimistic about corporate personhood.
« Reply #23 on: June 04, 2010, 07:42:42 am »
ECH, it is a hazard, but I find it less frightening than making them FIGHT for freedom.  Which I am anticipating. 

There is a faction of thinkers who want to develop "Friendly AI" to keep them from fighting oppression, but this is just a stop-gap to create more pleasant slaves.  The fact is that intelligence always finds a way, or dies trying.

I recognize that machines with the right to humane treatment is frightening, but so is the possibility of an intelligence that feels justified trying to kill us off.  I think of it as simply giving a dangerous thing the respect it deserves.

BabylonHoruv

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Re: I'm actually optimistic about corporate personhood.
« Reply #24 on: June 04, 2010, 07:44:39 am »
I think you have some funny ideas about intelligence Sigmatic.

an AI is not going to resemble a human intelligence unless we make it that way.  The urge to self rule, self preservation, and so forth arise from evolutionary pressures that will not be placed on AI.
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Jasper

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Re: I'm actually optimistic about corporate personhood.
« Reply #25 on: June 04, 2010, 07:47:44 am »
Way to assume I don't know shit.

No, I'm talking about brain-like machine consciousness.  You could call it an interest of mine.

BabylonHoruv

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Re: I'm actually optimistic about corporate personhood.
« Reply #26 on: June 04, 2010, 07:50:38 am »
Way to assume I don't know shit.

No, I'm talking about brain-like machine consciousness.  You could call it an interest of mine.

well sure, but even if it is brain like that doesn't mean it has to be brain like in those respects.  Building that thing in the first place would be a really bad idea.  And I can't see anything that it would be more useful for than a less human-like AI.
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Jasper

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Re: I'm actually optimistic about corporate personhood.
« Reply #27 on: June 04, 2010, 08:01:06 am »
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Jasper

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Re: I'm actually optimistic about corporate personhood.
« Reply #28 on: June 04, 2010, 08:31:46 am »
From now on, I'll just stick to posting one liners and reading about your shitty lives in Open Bar.  Everything else I try to talk about has this shabby crap happen to it.

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Re: I'm actually optimistic about corporate personhood.
« Reply #29 on: June 04, 2010, 08:33:41 am »
Fffffffffffffuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu...


...ckyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooouuuuuuuuuuuuuuu.


I knew I shouldn't have even bothered.

Well, it's kind of a hard thing to grasp. Why would we make machines that think and feel like us? What is the purpose behind it? We make machines to do stuff for us. If we want companions we find one and make companions for other people in the process.

If we were to make machines in our likeness, yeah give them rights.  I think what's going on though is the lingering question, why bother? It's great for science fiction, but not very practical for real life. It's actually anti-practical. Cool? Yes. Reasonable? Eh... I don't know.
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