The Instinct to Conform

[ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞]

"You can't wake a person pretending to be asleep." - N A V A J O   P R O V E R B

I can feel my conformity instincts in a crowd like a lead suit but I'm most ashamed of when it pulls me in and I only notice it later.

I have been posting on this forum for years and never wrote a real rant because I'm so unsure of where the acquiescing to a group ends and my self begins. Does the octopus know it is hiding in plain sight by reflecting its environment  or is it more of an instinct that invisibly orchestrates such behavior? Who am I, with all the roles I play consciously and all the ones I don't even notice?

It doesn't help to be aware of these facts as it has little to do with my volition. I'm concerned about the locus of control. Neuroscientists believe this idea occurs after we have decided to do something. Philosophers call this a post hoc fallacy.

Logically, I'm inescapably imprisoned within my experiences and biology but am convinced I acted of my own "free will" and am actually frolicing in an alpine meadow farting butterflies.

My narrow scope of perception restricts me to only lies by omission. Context is a personal bias that angles the frame of my thoughts, outside of awareness.  My interests filter your set of circumstances and translate that into something that relates to me. Where my map is incomplete I ignore the "you" which I have no structure to graft upon.

I can't just remove the hardwiring for my ego, my sense of control. It's what makes life vivid. This hallucination of primate proportions is what makes life good.

What balance can be struck between a miserable connection with a truth and a reassuring belief of control? I know I'm not a god, but I'm not sure I'm not an emergent figment of the wilderness' imagination.

[nerinamakani]

I liken it to us being an expression of waves on the ocean.

With creatures and unimaginable monsters underneath, causing unseen ripples.

Some of which can be contacted and channelled.

Might be fun for you to try if I'm getting the right vibe from your post.

am I making sense?

[Captain Utopia]

Huh.  So, the waves are the culmination of multiple forces acting independently or in various combinations, and you're saying that some of the forces can be consciously controlled?  Okay - then what are you suggesting that Net try, and to what end?

[Brotep]

I'm not convinced that the full extent of how we actually "work" (here meaning make decisions/act "intentionally") is knowable.

Whether or not you believe agency an intelligible concept, it is still simpler and more useful to consider yourself as an agent than it is to take some kind of mechanistic approach.

[Hoser McRhizzy]

Really enjoyed reading this, Net.

Logically, I'm inescapably imprisoned within my experiences and biology but am convinced I acted of my own "free will" and am actually frolicing in an alpine meadow farting butterflies.

There's much less of a 'versus' with groups and selves (and trying to think them apart is messier) than we're taught.

Also thinking I need to read this again.   (Is ego, control and proportion what "make life vivid"?)

[Pæs]

I really liked this.
I keep opening it to read over it again, but haven't got much in the way of things to add.
Thought I'd mention that I enjoyed it, though.

[nerinamakani]

Huh.  So, the waves are the culmination of multiple forces acting independently or in various combinations, and you're saying that some of the forces can be consciously controlled?  Okay - then what are you suggesting that Net try, and to what end?

Channeling archetypes maybe?
Net could envision his/her unconscious as beings and/or pools of emotional energy. And contact as imagination will allow.
For the fun of it. To work out emotional issues. Release. Spiritual reawakening. You name it I guess.

[Telarus]

I dig the OP.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

I'm going to have to reread this a couple of times, but, as far as what you mention about already making a decision before you made it, you had to make that decision some how. That decision was reached by what makes you you. Just because you made the decision before you became consciously aware of the decision doesn't mean you didn't make the decision based on what you would have done anyway.

Maybe I'm not making sense. I have my doubts, since, at the moment, Nerinamakani seems to be lucid and actually contributing intelligibly to the conversation for a change.

[East Coast Hustle]

I really like the OP.

[hooplala]

Well said and something I struggle with all the time... when I like someone I find myself agreeing with them a lot, and at a certain point I begin to wonder if I am agreeing with them, or merely sucking out their opinions and regurgitating them...  sometimes that person will say something completely contrary to my opinions and I can be mercifully appalled, therefor reinstating my own personal sovereignty, but other times -whether I like it or not- the person in question and I continue to agree on things and I am left in a state of doubt.

Also, to add to this, for some reason I tend to be the kind of person that doesn't always immediately know what I feel about something until I've heard a few opinions, and then react to one or all of them.  So if no other people were around would I even HAVE opinions?  Its a frightening thought.

I guess what I am saying is that this rant touched something inside me, Net.   Thanks.

[Captain Utopia]

I don't know what triggered it, but for the last few months, I'll be thinking about something or other, and suddenly the script will change to this: "Oh shit, that's just exactly what XXX said that one time, and I've been applying that opinion/thought for several years without even questioning it - well, do I agree?"

Many times I find then myself in complete disagreement, but the degree of suppression seems linked to the strength of the relationship.

While it's disconcerting to remember the incidents which lead to a particular alien thought, it's much more frightening to think of all the instances where my personality has been partially digested by another, and I'm not even aware of it.

[P3nT4gR4m]

I don't know what triggered it, but for the last few months, I'll be thinking about something or other, and suddenly the script will change to this: "Oh shit, that's just exactly what XXX said that one time, and I've been applying that opinion/thought for several years without even questioning it - well, do I agree?"

Many times I find then myself in complete disagreement, but the degree of suppression seems linked to the strength of the relationship.

While it's disconcerting to remember the incidents which lead to a particular alien thought, it's much more frightening to think of all the instances where my personality has been partially digested by another, and I'm not even aware of it.

Welcome to the world of Shrapnel^tm

Remember that old chestnut?

[Captain Utopia]

Remember that old chestnut?

No, but since it sounds vaguely familiar, it's probably influencing my every move 

Do you have a handy link?  Oh wait - this?

[Adios]

The old Soundbyte Syndrome™. We all eat from that table once in a while.