ATTN: Ratatosk, and assorted others

[P3nT4gR4m]

Then try using parental skills instead of trying to force me to live according to your ideals. That is what has me ticked off.

THIS!

Like I already said - there's a problem with teenagers having sex and getting pregnant. Your logic has me banned from fucking consenting adults as a remedy.

Parents who are strung out on whatever is a bad environment for kids to be brought up in and yeah those kids have easy access to drugs but the issue isn't whether I'm allowed to take drugs the issue is those are shit parents - social services should step in and ship the kids off somewhere they'll be brought up by responsible adults - locking me up for smoking a joint is not the solution in this instance.

[Adios]

http://www.theantidrug.com/drug-information/commonly-abused-drugs/alcohol.aspx?id=alcohol

Ban alcohol! Oh...wait....

[Cain]

I'm amused how so many Discordians are concerned about the legality of drugs or not, on both sides of the debate.

Man the fuck up.  If you're stupid enough to get caught, go out in public while high, come to the attention of police informants, buy from undercover cops etc, then you're an idiot and deserve to go to prison.  Suck it up, whiners.  If you're going to let the law dictate your activities you may as well give up right now.  And if you're going to complain because THE MAN is oppressing you and it's just not fair, mum, you might as well hang around with all those pathetic legalization campaigns. 

And no-one should be forced to endure that.

[P3nT4gR4m]

Troof! If I've said it once, I've said it a hundred times - I'm a criminal so I can do what I want. Hell, when I was dealing drugs legalisation was our worst nightmare - it'd kill business overnight. Doesn't stop me pointing out the stupidity inherent in doing things the legal way, tho.

[LMNO]

I just find it amusing that the majority of the threads in this forum regard everyone (including ourselves) as dumb monkeys who have trouble walking upright most of the time, and spend their days wrapped up by their Spiders™, eating Big Macs and watching Reality TV, flnging shit, oblivious to the world around them and the catastrophic things they do to themselves and their environment... Except when we argue with RWHN, and suddenly they are all completely capable, compassionate, and rational creatures who will raise their children in the best possible manner if we would just leave them alone.

[Cain]

I just find it amusing that the majority of the threads in this forum regard everyone (including ourselves) as dumb monkeys who have trouble walking upright most of the time, and spend their days wrapped up by their Spiders™, eating Big Macs and watching Reality TV, flnging shit, oblivious to the world around them and the catastrophic things they do to themselves and their environment... Except when we argue with RWHN, and suddenly they are all completely capable, compassionate, and rational creatures who will raise their children in the best possible manner if we would just leave them alone.

So you're saying I shouldn't take my kids to MacDonalds for breakfast and dinner then?

[Adios]

I just find it amusing that the majority of the threads in this forum regard everyone (including ourselves) as dumb monkeys who have trouble walking upright most of the time, and spend their days wrapped up by their Spiders™, eating Big Macs and watching Reality TV, flnging shit, oblivious to the world around them and the catastrophic things they do to themselves and their environment... Except when we argue with RWHN, and suddenly they are all completely capable, compassionate, and rational creatures who will raise their children in the best possible manner if we would just leave them alone.

So there is no such things as good parents? Oh, they just never get the media coverage because they are boring. What I am seeing ITT is a lot of is that kids are stupid and we need to protect them at all costs, including freedom.

Kids and substance is nothing new, it has been going on for a very long time and it will continue to go on for a very long time. Not even wrapping the world in bubble wrap is going to stop it. Of course it's tragic, no argument there, but where is self responsibility in this equasion?

[LMNO]

So you're saying I shouldn't take my kids to MacDonalds for breakfast and dinner then?

You can only take them if you Supersize© it.

What I am seeing ITT is a lot of is that kids are stupid and we need to protect them at all costs, including freedom.

Kids and substance is nothing new, it has been going on for a very long time and it will continue to go on for a very long time. Not even wrapping the world in bubble wrap is going to stop it. Of course it's tragic, no argument there, but where is self responsibility in this equasion?

If you recall, RWHN has posted several different studies that show that adolescents, because their brains are still developing, even the smart ones, cannot fully be said to have full responsibility for their actions.  The responsibility, then, falls to the parents.  A responsible, informed parent will do their best.  An irresponsible, misinformed parent will fail.

Again, I point to the rest of this forum, and all our ranting about the ignorance and irresponsibility of humans.  Sure, we are good parents, and so are our friends, but we are also the minority of a minority.

[Adios]

So you're saying I shouldn't take my kids to MacDonalds for breakfast and dinner then?

You can only take them if you Supersize© it.

What I am seeing ITT is a lot of is that kids are stupid and we need to protect them at all costs, including freedom.

Kids and substance is nothing new, it has been going on for a very long time and it will continue to go on for a very long time. Not even wrapping the world in bubble wrap is going to stop it. Of course it's tragic, no argument there, but where is self responsibility in this equasion?

If you recall, RWHN has posted several different studies that show that adolescents, because their brains are still developing, even the smart ones, cannot fully be said to have full responsibility for their actions.  The responsibility, then, falls to the parents.  A responsible, informed parent will do their best.  An irresponsible, misinformed parent will fail.

Again, I point to the rest of this forum, and all our ranting about the ignorance and irresponsibility of humans.  Sure, we are good parents, and so are our friends, but we are also the minority of a minority.

Ok, another angle to continue with Cains post about McDonalds.

We have fat kids, no argument. So, let's sue McDonalds to get rid of the toys because that encourages kids to get fat. There are several groups out there who want to ban fast food completely. So following the logic posited in this thread kids will then have 'burger parties' to try and get fat.

All of this when the real issue is the fat little kid needs to get the hell out from in front of the television or their video game and go do something. Something physical. Like play outside.

Kids are going to find a way to get trashed, whether it's drugs or alcohol of whatever. Because they are kids.

I don't even use illegal drugs, haven't since 1972.

The problem though with not legalizing pot is an incredible amount of money and lives are being spent and lost every year. Check out the Mexican border and drug cartels.

Where is the balance between common sense and doing the best we can?

[P3nT4gR4m]

So you're saying I shouldn't take my kids to MacDonalds for breakfast and dinner then?

You can only take them if you Supersize© it.

What I am seeing ITT is a lot of is that kids are stupid and we need to protect them at all costs, including freedom.

Kids and substance is nothing new, it has been going on for a very long time and it will continue to go on for a very long time. Not even wrapping the world in bubble wrap is going to stop it. Of course it's tragic, no argument there, but where is self responsibility in this equasion?

If you recall, RWHN has posted several different studies that show that adolescents, because their brains are still developing, even the smart ones, cannot fully be said to have full responsibility for their actions.  The responsibility, then, falls to the parents.  A responsible, informed parent will do their best.  An irresponsible, misinformed parent will fail.

Again, I point to the rest of this forum, and all our ranting about the ignorance and irresponsibility of humans.  Sure, we are good parents, and so are our friends, but we are also the minority of a minority.

Okay I'm going to do a u-turn here cos I just realised you're right and so am I, even though I was trying to be facetious  

They should ban everything. Including especially sex between consenting adults. That way the idiots wouldn't be able to breed.

Srsly

[LMNO]

Ok, at this point, I'm amused at Vitriol's sudden adherence to either/or statements.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Protecting kids from weed is fine. Because, yeah, adolescents make stupid decisions. Like buying weed from a drug dealer.

If a kid wants to smoke pot, s/he's going to do it, with or without legal opportunity to do so.
Just like the kid who drinks alcohol, a restricted substance that is nonetheless legal.

I see what you're saying but I think you're thinking too much about what will the kids do? Nothing any different than they are now. Except that the store clerk can say, no weed for you, you're too young. Drug dealers don't card.

@Cain- tobacco, pornography, casino gambling and the lottery is legal at age 18. Alcohol is legal at age 21, except, I think, in Louisiana, where you can buy from a liquor store at 18 but can't go to the bar until 21. I would imagine that with legalization, you would have to be 21 to purchase marijuana.

[AFK]

Just a little background info I want to throw out there to everyone.  So, I'm working on this big 3 year federal government grant.  We have a big wad of dough to work on different areas affecting kids and affecting their learning environment.  Bullying, mental health, early childhood education, etc., etc.,  I'm in charge of the subtance abuse piece.  Anyway, one of the things I will be doing is developing new substance abuse policies for the schools that move them away from their current zero tolerance policies.  The ones where a kid gets caught with a joint, gets suspended for a bunch of days, and then falls behind in school, eventually puts his arms up and drops out.  The reality is that I will probably meet some stiff resistance when I propose this to the school boards.  But I just wanted to throw that out there to perhaps add a little perspective to my perspective.  

[AFK]

The problem with that, is there really is no such thing as "healthy" use of drugs, or for that matter "healthy" sexual practices when you are 13. 

I wasn't talking about children but thanks for bringing that up cos it illustrates my point fucking beautifully. One of your main arguments for not allowing adults to take drugs is because it'll be easier for children to get them then, right? Same goes for fucking - if adults are allowed to do it then children will want to as well. Your logic dictates we have to ban fucking immediately - for the sake of the younger generation. Anything that kids aren't meant to do will be easier for them to do if adults are allowed. Porn, horror movies, subversive literature, music with swear words in... Where do you draw the line? I'll guarantee it comes down to opinion and that's where my whole fucking problem lies. Think of the most conservative morally uptight whining bastard you ever met, then assume there's someone out there who's much worse and then imagine living your life by a set of rules dictated by them because that's what lies at the bottom of this slippery prohibition slope. Little by little the fences get moved back and I for one aint fucking having it.

By all means raise awareness, treat the ones who need it but we're innocent until proven guilty. Just because, in your opinion, there's no healthy way to use drugs doesn't mean the rest of us necessarily feel the same way. Why should you be the one who gets to decide?

Still not.

But the kids are in the equation whether you want to talk about it or not. 

[Doktor Howl]

Just a little background info I want to throw out there to everyone.  So, I'm working on this big 3 year federal government.  We have a big wad of dough to work on different areas affecting kids and affecting their learning environment.  Bullying, mental health, early childhood education, etc., etc.,  I'm in charge of the subtance abuse piece.  Anyway, one of the things I will be doing is developing new substance abuse policies for the schools that move them away from their current zero tolerance policies.  The ones where a kid gets caught with a joint, gets suspended for a bunch of days, and then falls behind in school, eventually puts his arms up and drops out.  The reality is that I will probably meet some stiff resistance when I propose this to the school boards.  But I just wanted to throw that out there to perhaps add a little perspective to my perspective. 

Good.  Zero-tolerance has never worked, and it just a combination of pandering to the hair-shirt punishment freaks and sucking the ass of insurance companies.